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Author Topic: Movies and Boys
Avigail

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Post Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 9:58 PM

If a regular yeshiva boy who is also in college working towards a career tells you that he watches clean movies sometimes during bein hazamanim, is that a deal breaker?
What would the ideal boy who doesn't like to learn all the time do in his free time?

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:03 PM

It's a valid question, and in my opinion, is not a problem at all and should not be a dealbreaker.
You are not marrying the ideal boy, but one of the boys you are set up with. Ask him what he likes to do.

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:08 PM

haha. There are very many yeshiva boys who are not in college and are planning on long term learning who do that also.

iThink

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:25 PM

Clean movies? So he sticks to National Geographic and the Honeymooners? Right.

And like feigy123 said, the college factor has nothing to do with it.

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:27 PM

Honeymooners is kosher?

iThink

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:33 PM

The only thing that comes to mind that I can see someone calling clean.

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:38 PM

How about Finding Nemo

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tsRight

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:40 PM

It's all relative. He probably means (unless he's not being honest with himself/you) that he watches movies he feels don't have a negative impact on him, so they're "clean."

iThink

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:46 PM

I agree that's probably what he meant but I like when they say it like it is. Chances are he won't sit through Finding Nemo so whatever it is he's watching it's most likely not kosher. Let's just call a spade a spade.

Avigail

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:47 PM

Quote from feigy123 on June 18, 2013, 10:08 PM
haha. There are very many yeshiva boys who are not in college and are planning on long term learning who do that also.

How do you know?

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 10:48 PM

Quote from Avigail on June 18, 2013, 10:47 PM

Quote from feigy123 on June 18, 2013, 10:08 PM
haha. There are very many yeshiva boys who are not in college and are planning on long term learning who do that also.

How do you know?

7 brothers; 5 years of dating.

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tsRight

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 11:00 PM

Quote from iThink on June 18, 2013, 10:46 PM
I agree that's probably what he meant but I like when they say it like it is. Chances are he won't sit through Finding Nemo so whatever it is he's watching it's most likely not kosher. Let's just call a spade a spade.

Of course you're right, but he's trying to make the whole "movie watching" situation sound as offhand and irrelevant (to the fact of him being a yeshivish boy) as possible. It's called sugar coating the truth lol 😉 Also, no one wants to get in a whole long discussion about a topic that they feel self-conscious or guilty about.

And again, if it's not having a negative influence on him - let's say he's watching I Love Lucy, or PG rated movies from 15 years ago (those type of movies really probably won't have a negative impact on him,) I don't see how it's such a big deal...
And especially if he's in college - believe me you hear a lot worse there...

iThink

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 11:05 PM

Not saying it's such a big deal (or that it's not). Not saying you don't see/hear worse in college. My issue is, as you said, the sugar coating.

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tsRight

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 11:14 PM

Ok, but most people aren't strong or honest enough to (they feel) bare themselves to someone they want to look good in front of.

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 18, 2013, 11:39 PM

Can I take issue with the way you phrased your question? How can you ask if anything is a deal-breaker to a random forum of people? Everyone has something else that is a deal-breaker for them.

If you're trying to figure out if this should be a deal-breaker for you, there are a lot of questions that you need to ask yourself about what this might mean about him. What does "clean" mean? (For each individual it may mean something else.) Are you cool with what he thinks is "clean?" What does this mean he is exposed to? Are you okay with this? How might it affect your relationship? How does he talk about movies/actors/etc? Does he feel that it's not an ideal thing for him to be doing? So on and so forth.

Even if there is a difference between a guy and a girl watching movies, if you watch movies then why is it not okay if he watches movies?

Also, there are plenty of other outlets aside from movies. I'm not saying that one is better or worse than the other, but there are a lot of guys that would never watch a movie, but they watch sports. Then there are those that would never watch any secular moving picture (sports, movie, youtube video, etc), and they play sports (basketball, baseball, football, ice hockey, etc). Or they read, write, draw, tinker with stuff, play an instrument...you name it. (And by the way, if you're thinking that those hobbies are not stuff guys do, they're all hobbies of guys I've dated.)

Avigail

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 7:31 AM

I really wasn't talking about myself. Somebody asked me about this topic and I thought it was not a realistic picture that was being painted. This girl wants to marry someone who has a carrier planned , who learns every day for an hour and who is a frum person. She absolutely refuses to hear about anyone like the above who also watches a 'clean' movie once in a while. I just think that is unrealistic. How does she envision her 'future husband' spending his time on a motzei shabbos or Sunday afternoon after he has gone to learn and the household tasks are done? Is it so terrible if they watch a movie together?

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 9:12 AM

Quote from Avigail on June 19, 2013, 7:31 AM
I really wasn't talking about myself. Somebody asked me about this topic and I thought it was not a realistic picture that was being painted. This girl wants to marry someone who has a carrier planned , who learns every day for an hour and who is a frum person. She absolutely refuses to hear about anyone like the above who also watches a 'clean' movie once in a while. I just think that is unrealistic. How does she envision her 'future husband' spending his time on a motzei shabbos or Sunday afternoon after he has gone to learn and the household tasks are done? Is it so terrible if they watch a movie together?

Yup. My old refrain was "Donny's don't exist". I guess my new refrain is "Donny's exist but do you really want a sociopath".

Avigail

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 9:24 AM

Quote from feigy123 on June 19, 2013, 9:12 AM
Yup. My old refrain was "Donny's don't exist". I guess my new refrain is "Donny's exist but do you really want a sociopath".

sociopath? why a sociopath? Isn't a sociopath someone who doesn't feel guilty when they hurt people? Or something like that?

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 9:42 AM

yeah, I probably used the wrong word. But it sounded good.

s.

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 11:18 AM

"Even if there is a difference between a guy and a girl watching movies, if you watch movies then why is it not okay if he watches movies?"

I don't know, I still think its ok for a girl to say that she wants her husband to not watch movies even if she herself does. It really is different- After all he has an actual clear mitzvah of shmiras einayim and serious issurim associated with that (and even the cleanest movies from 15 years ago- the women are not dressed to our standards of tznius..to lechatchila look at that for entertainment...its not like he's walking down the street and can't help but see people in his path). i personally dont, but many girls i know who do watch movies are worried about this and dont want to look for a guy that is careful not to watch things when they themselves do, and they feel like hypocrites, but I think they should realize that boys really are different, and the issues involved are different, and not to compare apples and oranges (although obviously there are many good reasons for girls not to watch either)

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 4:16 PM

I think we should focus more on appreciating people for who they are, rather than evaluating them against arbitrary ideas of what they should or shouldn't have done or be doing.

What does he enjoy doing? Does he accomplish things? Is he physically active? Watching movies is only a concern if it's a major part of his life. Otherwise it's the functional equivalent of a girl posting on inshidduchim.com. If it's her whole life, it's a concern. If she's doing other things and just enjoys it as an outlet, nothing wrong with it.

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 5:00 PM

Quote from patcha on June 19, 2013, 4:16 PM
I think we should focus more on appreciating people for who they are, rather than evaluating them against arbitrary ideas of what they should or shouldn't have done or be doing.

What does he enjoy doing? Does he accomplish things? Is he physically active? Watching movies is only a concern if it's a major part of his life. Otherwise it's the functional equivalent of a girl posting on inshidduchim.com. If it's her whole life, it's a concern. If she's doing other things and just enjoys it as an outlet, nothing wrong with it.

Watching a movie is a bit different than your run-of-the-mill outlet. There are serious concerns regarding shmeras einyim and the like. Watching even one movie can mess with his mind for quite awhile (even if it's "clean.")

Also, I'm sure there are those that exist that don't watch movies even if they are working. These things don't have to go hand-in-hand. The same way you can find plenty yeshiva guys learning full-time and watching movies. It's about personal standards.

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 5:27 PM

Quote from thinkingBYgirl on June 19, 2013, 5:00 PM

Quote from patcha on June 19, 2013, 4:16 PM
I think we should focus more on appreciating people for who they are, rather than evaluating them against arbitrary ideas of what they should or shouldn't have done or be doing.

What does he enjoy doing? Does he accomplish things? Is he physically active? Watching movies is only a concern if it's a major part of his life. Otherwise it's the functional equivalent of a girl posting on inshidduchim.com. If it's her whole life, it's a concern. If she's doing other things and just enjoys it as an outlet, nothing wrong with it.

Watching a movie is a bit different than your run-of-the-mill outlet. There are serious concerns regarding shmeras einyim and the like. Watching even one movie can mess with his mind for quite awhile (even if it's "clean.")

Also, I'm sure there are those that exist that don't watch movies even if they are working. These things don't have to go hand-in-hand. The same way you can find plenty yeshiva guys learning full-time and watching movies. It's about personal standards.

I hear you, but don't think this is consistent.

Riding the subway even once can mess with his mind and cause serious shmiras einayim problems. Should one then never ride the subway?

iThink

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 5:33 PM

Riding the subway even once can mess with his mind and cause serious shmiras einayim problems. Should one then never ride the subway?

I think there's a difference between putting yourself in a spiritually harmful spot for parnassah and doing the same for personal entertainment, wouldn't you agree?

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 7:44 PM

Quote from iThink on June 19, 2013, 5:33 PM
Riding the subway even once can mess with his mind and cause serious shmiras einayim problems. Should one then never ride the subway?

I think there's a difference between putting yourself in a spiritually harmful spot for parnassah and doing the same for personal entertainment, wouldn't you agree?

So you're okay with him taking the subway to work, but not to the ball game for personal entertainment?

(FTR, I'm not a movie watcher.)

iThink

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 19, 2013, 8:54 PM

Don't want my guy on the subway don't care where it takes him. But if it's the only way fir him to get to work then I'll deal with it for lack of any other choice. And even then I'd want his Rav to okay it first.

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 24, 2013, 10:58 AM

iThink: OK, I'll accept that.

feigy123

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 25, 2013, 2:05 AM

Funny, I was actually coming around to agree with Patcha. On one hand, I hear strongly that there is a difference between situations you need to be in and situations you put yourself in for entertainment. But if you ride the subway for 2 hours a day to get to work and back, does it really matter so much if you also ride it a third time one day? Or if you also watch a movie one day?

s.

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 25, 2013, 11:34 AM

Quote from feigy123 on June 25, 2013, 2:05 AM
Funny, I was actually coming around to agree with Patcha. On one hand, I hear strongly that there is a difference between situations you need to be in and situations you put yourself in for entertainment. But if you ride the subway for 2 hours a day to get to work and back, does it really matter so much if you also ride it a third time one day? Or if you also watch a movie one day?

It's the principle of the matter. But also on the subway at least he can close his eyes and listen to a shiur/jewish music while he rides. Not going to happen while watching a movie!

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 25, 2013, 12:48 PM

Quote from feigy123 on June 25, 2013, 2:05 AM
Funny, I was actually coming around to agree with Patcha. On one hand, I hear strongly that there is a difference between situations you need to be in and situations you put yourself in for entertainment. But if you ride the subway for 2 hours a day to get to work and back, does it really matter so much if you also ride it a third time one day? Or if you also watch a movie one day?

Thanks Feigy. I was just saying that at least iThink is being consistent - she doesn't want him watching movies, but she's not comfortable with the subway either.

Quote from s. on June 25, 2013, 11:34 AM
It's the principle of the matter. But also on the subway at least he can close his eyes and listen to a shiur/jewish music while he rides. Not going to happen while watching a movie!

It depends on the movie. Not all movies are so bad. Many are better than the subway.

s.

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 28, 2013, 12:16 AM

uvelechtecha baderech....

s.

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 28, 2013, 11:41 AM

i dont think anyone is COMFORTABLE with the subway...but weve been through this before.

show me one hollywood movie worth a shiur. its like a kid's breakfast cereal that advertises on the box to have "Vitamin C"...its like, great, but there are better sources for vitamin C than a sugary wheat cereal...! saying that not all movies are bad....there may be some nice message or something in the clean movies, but there are still the secular concepts and values that subtly get ingrained in your mind.

its not only about shmiras einayim..its also about how he spends his free time. (and this applies to girls as well)- you can do things to chill out, rejuvenate, etc. in order to better be able to serve Hashem. in fact, you should! but if what you are doing to relax is harming you spiritually, you'd better find a different outlet for yourself. and there are plenty that are not as detrimental to your spiritual health as watching entertainment made by goyim.

patcha

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Post Re: Movies and Boys
on: June 28, 2013, 12:31 PM

Quote from s. on June 28, 2013, 11:41 AM
i dont think anyone is COMFORTABLE with the subway...but weve been through this before.

show me one hollywood movie worth a shiur. its like a kid's breakfast cereal that advertises on the box to have "Vitamin C"...its like, great, but there are better sources for vitamin C than a sugary wheat cereal...! saying that not all movies are bad....there may be some nice message or something in the clean movies, but there are still the secular concepts and values that subtly get ingrained in your mind.

its not only about shmiras einayim..its also about how he spends his free time. (and this applies to girls as well)- you can do things to chill out, rejuvenate, etc. in order to better be able to serve Hashem. in fact, you should! but if what you are doing to relax is harming you spiritually, you'd better find a different outlet for yourself. and there are plenty that are not as detrimental to your spiritual health as watching entertainment made by goyim.

You're right. Let's all agree on the following points:
-shmiras einayim is important
- movies/ the subway is not an optimal framework within which to practice SE
- free time is best spent doing constructive things

I think we also can agree that most movies have some kind of non-Torah message.

We can also agree that some movies are neutral. They won't harm you spiritually but they won't do anything good for you either.

Now, there are many outlets a person can have. Most of us have a mix of outlets; some we wish we could stop doing, that are really a little destructive, (biting nails, watching movies, obsessing about shidduchim) harmless outlets that don't really bother us (inshidduchim.com, cell phone games) and constructive outlets (doing chesed).

You have to really think about it before labeling on outlet as BAD and another as okay. So the best thing to do is look at the person for who he is overall and see how his outlets have impacted him as a person. If you respect him and see that he is good, his outlets just aren't such a big deal.

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