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Author Topic: Love before marriage?
feigy123

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Post Love before marriage?

Do you need to be in love with him in order to get engaged? I've heard some people say yes and some people say no.

But I dunno, I can't imagine being willing to agree to get married if I don't have feelings for the guy and he's just nice to be around. I'm not looking for a friend--I'm looking for a husband.

maybe part of it is that there are always things which you are settling over (unless you literally know nothing about him), and even though I've decided those things don't matter so much, if I'm not falling in love, I'm afraid that that is the reason why.

Bayla

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

Hi there and great post. Your topic is something that I have pondered for a while and I want to share my thoughts with you. I believe that true love has a lot to do with giving. That means that after the marriage when you give and give to your spouse you automatically come to love him. Think of a baby, the baby cries all day, needs to be changed and fed and cared for. And to make things worse he keeps you awake all night. And he happens to not even be the cutest baby. (yet why to all mothers think their babies are cute? Because they love them, why? Because they have been giving to them since conception) Yet every mother loves their child so much and will do anything for them but why? Because the child is a part of her..her entire life she will be giving to this child yet as the child gets older the love grows more too. When dating a guy there needs to be a kesher and an attraction and common goals ect but to be in love? No, is not possible until you are living with the person and giving to them. And then they become a part of you, 'Kbaser Eched". Yet, your not called that until the marriage.

Avigail

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

There is actually a great shiur on that in the inspiration section by Rabbi Shaya Cohen http://www.inshidduchim.com/rabbi-shaya-cohen/

feigy123

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

Bayla: I don't think I agree with you.

I don't think love between spouses is so similar to the love of a parent to a child or two friends. I think it is possible to love someone before you are married--although I certainly imagine it intensifies once you are married.

As the torah testifies: ויאהב יעקב את רחל

Bracha613

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

Feigy123 I've thought about this many times. There's been quite a few times that I dated someone and things were going OK and I was unsure to keep on going or not since I liked him, but didn't feel anything more. I would go out again and again hoping that my feelings would change, but I still felt like I just liked him. Whenever this has happened, by cousin (whose about 20 yrs older than me) tells me to stop dating the guy because she is sure that I will be crazy over the guy I decide to marry. Each time this has happened I had a very hard time trusting her but once I said no, I did feel like it was the right thing to do. So, yes - you should be crazy over him!

Shira

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

You really trust your cousin! My gut feeling is that she's right - otherwise, how would you know who to marry?

feigy123

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

Thinking about this more:

Perhaps more important is that we should know where we stand on it--either insist on it, or don't. It also affects the way you act on dates, that is, is it just a business negotiation or are you trying to build a romantic relationship?

I do think it is possible to have a romantic relationship before marriage, but I also think it is possible to have a fine marriage without it. As my best friend said: She knows plenty of people who were madly in love while engaged, and she's not aware that they have better relationships than she has. So I don't know if it is something I should be insisting on and trying to build.

Shaindy

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Post Re: Love before marriage?

Here are my thoughts. I think you'll know when you meet him. If you have questions if you like him you probably don't. The fact that many people who aren't sure get married doesn't mean anything. You don't know how happy they are. Of course there's no way of me backing up my theory, but it's still my theory.

dancer90

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i would say that every couple is different in this aspect. i think some people do have those fireworks during engagement and some are just happy and content that they are marrying a solid person with good middos who they get along with. but the real bond and attatchment can only come after working on a relationship and going through ups and downs together. i had a friend that had no interest in talking on the phone to her chosson during her engagement. shes a regualr open minded bais yakov girl. she just felt every conversation was all polite and a little forced and she had no patience. now they are very happily married. hes a nice guy and they have plenty to talk about.....

Sari

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My brother told me that he heard in the name of R' Shach that the level of feeling needed before getting married. Is that if you heard that the boy or girl was in another room you would go right away to see them. What do you think of that?

cool nerd

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 14, 2013, 9:36 PM

I believe the connection between the boy and girl also has a lot to do with the community the two are from. For example, there's really no way a chasidish couple can be in love at the time of the engagement and yet they often really care about one another even before they're married. The only ones that are capable of love before marriage are the ones that date for a really long time (I've done a lot of research on this). So IMHO, love isn't a prerequisite for marriage, but you should be pretty crazy/have feelings for a guy before saying yes.

life123

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 15, 2013, 12:07 AM

I once read in a book by Rabbi Nochum Diamant that when a boy comes to him and asks, "This girl is nice but I don't feel anything, what should I do," he answers, "Break up with her immediately!"
Then the boy protests, "But why should I do that? She's a good girl and a really pleasant person!"
Then he says, "Mazal Tov! You can get married."

dance4ever

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 18, 2013, 9:25 AM

i like that sari- i think its true. If you think you will "just know" when its the right one- you are mistaken- it almost NEVER happens that way! Engaged/ married people tend to say, "I knew i would marry him." I think their memories are modified as soon as the proposal happens... in hindsight its easy to say, "i knew" but at the time- most people are confused and scared (even looking for any excuse to try to break it off).

iThink

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 18, 2013, 9:58 AM

It's obvious from the many different posts here that we don't all define "love" the same way. It's true that some of us "need it " more than others before we're ready to make a lifelong commitment to the relationship. But it's important to understand what exactly you mean by "love".

frumgal

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 19, 2013, 9:53 PM

Coolnerd: I agree 100%. Love is not a prerequisite for marriage, in fact I honestly don't understand how it's possible for two people who don't know each other that well to have real feelings of love for one another.
True love (IMHO), is only possible when you really know the other person (his/her not such awesome side too) which can only happen when you live with someone. Love is unselfishly giving to another human being...without expecting anything in return ( although in a healthy marriage it should be a two way street). Going through the ups and downs of life with someone and being there for each other fosters love. Having said that, I don't think love before marriage is at all possible. But, there should be strong positive feelings for each other as well as an iron strong commitment.
I'd love to hear more opinions on this topic....

feigy123

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 19, 2013, 9:59 PM

Frumgal:

Look, maybe what I'm talking about is not called "love" in your parlance, but it is called something. I'm talking about whatever Yaakov felt for Rochel, and whatever it is that I sometimes have felt with people I was dating and sometimes haven't. I'm talking about the feeling that makes people who aren't doing shidduch dating want to continue dating someone.

So sure, I'll agree that after dating for 2 months you can't feel the same way a married couple feels after 60 years. But that doesn't mean the feelings are fake or bad.

frumgal

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 19, 2013, 10:44 PM

Feigy123:
Please don't get me wrong, I didn't say the feelings you have after 2 months of dating are in any way fake. I would think that after seeing a guy for 2 months you'd be feeling something for him. All I'm trying to say is: should you like him a whole lot? yes. should you have real feelings for him? yes. but, can you love him (and I'm thinking along the lines of what I'd consider love, it obviously has a different meaning for everyone) not before marriage, ya can't. But, those strong feelings should be there. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear before.

feigy123

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 19, 2013, 10:46 PM

i think we agree.

frumgal

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 19, 2013, 10:54 PM

😉

Cherry

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 21, 2013, 8:36 AM

I'm not against love before marriage. In fact I'm totally for it. However I do think the pple who treat dating like a business deal, Do have an advantage in a sense that they have a far less of a chance of getting hurt. If they find out that they are not compatible before he puts the ring on her finger....

Romance before marriage can result in two extreme outcomes;
Either extreme passion and joy upon entering building a life together or it can result in extreme pain heart ache and let down.

The business deal will leave you feeling nutral. Until the commitment is made. Via chuppa and kedushin. ...

feigy123

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 21, 2013, 8:53 AM

You can even keep it a business deal even after marriage, and then you won't be hurt if you get divorced. 😀

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: February 21, 2013, 2:25 PM

I agree with feigy123. You have to be real in a relationship. If you aren't because you're too scared of getting hurt, there is something wrong. If you approach this like a business deal, there's something wrong. If you are able to "feel neutral" until chuppa and kedushin, there's something wrong. Sorry, but pain is a part of life. When someone gets hurt because of relationship that didn't work out, they grow from it and become a better person.

rosepetal5

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: May 25, 2013, 10:11 PM

I think love before marriage is totally possible. In fact, i think it should be necessary. I don't like when people say "it's not possible to love him like you will after you've been married for a long time." Of course not! You haven't lived together or built a life together yet! But it's still totally possible to love the person you're marrying. Also, there's a big difference between being "in-love" and loving a person. The distinction that i learned was that truly loving a person means wanting to honestly give to them. The word AHAV in Hebrew also means give. I think being "in-love" has more to do with how the person makes you feel, and not how you truly care about them.
I know I couldn't marry a person I did not love. Liking a lot is not enough.

rosepetal5

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Post Re: Love before marriage?
on: May 25, 2013, 10:12 PM

Quote from Bayla on January 22, 2013, 11:50 AM
Hi there and great post. Your topic is something that I have pondered for a while and I want to share my thoughts with you. I believe that true love has a lot to do with giving. That means that after the marriage when you give and give to your spouse you automatically come to love him. Think of a baby, the baby cries all day, needs to be changed and fed and cared for. And to make things worse he keeps you awake all night. And he happens to not even be the cutest baby. (yet why to all mothers think their babies are cute? Because they love them, why? Because they have been giving to them since conception) Yet every mother loves their child so much and will do anything for them but why? Because the child is a part of her..her entire life she will be giving to this child yet as the child gets older the love grows more too. When dating a guy there needs to be a kesher and an attraction and common goals ect but to be in love? No, is not possible until you are living with the person and giving to them. And then they become a part of you, 'Kbaser Eched". Yet, your not called that until the marriage.

The love of a child and the love of a spouse is totally different. Love of a child is unconditional love. The connection between parent and child is not at all the same as the connection between spouses.

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