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Author Topic: College Degrees!?!
LuvAhuva

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Post College Degrees!?!
on: February 13, 2013, 7:55 PM

Hey guys! was wondering if i could get some input on this topic!.. im halfway through my bachelor's and im up to the point where ive got to decide what i want to do.. the thing is im not eligible for ANY financial aid (my parents earn too much), yet my parents cant afford to pay touros enourmous tuition out of pocket. i refuse to go to a community college and sit among low class goyim/mixed classes (for some people it may be ok but i know its not for me). my only option is to take out student loans...
i do not want to be a therapist by any means and i keep hearing that accounting and nursing is flooded and not at all convenient for a jewish mother. im more of a peoples person and i would be good for business and marketing type of thing... except you dont really need a college degree for that!
The problem is, the first question a shadchan/boys mom asks, is what degree im pursuing!
i have friends that finished their degrees and moved to lakewood and they are finding it impossible to get jobs there. and the ones that travel to new york are miserable and overwhelmed!
and the ones that DO have decent jobs complain that it doesnt even pay for them to work because after babysitting and taxes and health insurance they are left with 5 dollars.
if i was eligible for financial aid i would just do my degree cuz why not. But if im going to have to take out loans and pay back with interest does it really pay for me to continue???? i am totally stuck. i know its all from hashem but i feel like if i drop outve of school i will just turn boys away and NO ONE WILL WANT TO GO OUT WITH ME, but my heart is not in it and i just dont see myself as a speech therapist!!
please please please - if someone has experience with this issue i could use any advice!!!
thanks, ahuva!

d-e1-9

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 13, 2013, 8:58 PM

Why don't you consider just taking one course a semester. Maybe you can pay for that yourself and won't have to take out a loan. That way you can still be working towards a degree without over-extending yourself financially.

Bracha613

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 13, 2013, 9:01 PM

Great idea de19 😛 It does sound a little sneaky though. What would you say if he asks you why you are only taking one course?

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 13, 2013, 9:06 PM

in touro there is a minimum of 12 credits - that 4 classes.
i literally do not know what to do. i took some time off already but im at the point where i need to make up my mind! does it pay to take out loans or not? or should i just rely on Hashem that if college is not working out for me right now than my guy wont care about a degree...or is that not doing enough hishtadlus?!?

life123

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 13, 2013, 10:42 PM

I took 10 credits in Touro recently (though I got more later, i was officially only registered for 10). You need to take at least 12 for financial aid purposes.
I had the same problem. I've been in Touro for a while, message me if you want to discuss it.

heyhey

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 13, 2013, 11:42 PM

why dont you pay for it with your own $$. that way you will qualify (most prob.) for student loan...?

cool nerd

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 12:10 AM

Building on what heyhey said, if you're an independent financially, you might be eligible for Tap/Pell, etc.... I wasn't either eligible for any financial aid when I got my degree so I started filing as an independent.

inshidduch-
im613

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 1:30 AM

to tell u the truth, i think this is a question to ask a rav..

InShidduch-
imFollower

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 7:27 AM

Is there any specific degree that you would like to pursue that is not offered by touro? It may be worth your while to get an online degree...they are much cheaper than the regulars and then you leave yourself with many more options...there are so many options out there that aren't available in touro!

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:13 AM

chyasim - thanks i didnt know that maybe thats a plan! when i was there they made you take 4 courses at least.
cool nerd- thanks for ur suggestion but i tried that. i can claim independantly but i am working and i make decent money plus i live at home and on my parents health insurance so between all that even claiming independantly wont make me eligible.
heyhey- i am trying to avoid student loans not qaulify for them.

ask a Rav??? is it really that serious. i mean is it really not ok to g-d forbid have a college degree?? 🙁

online degrees, from what i looked into, are harder and just as expensive...at this point i would go for anyting just to have a piece of paper. so if you have any specific online degrees that were cheap and not too complicated than that would be super helpful!!

or did anyone take any courses not in college (besides for sheitels and makeup) that they found useful? thanks for you input i really appreciate it! i feel so lost!

InShidduch-
imFollower

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 9:01 AM

You presented yourself as a people's person...are you also the educator type? I don't mean specifically teaching, but there are many different venues in the special Ed field and then sara shenirer is really a great place. Their degree is very valued and it gives you a lot besides for being a teacher! So why not look into it?

life123

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 9:44 AM

There are a few other things you can do - here are some
web design
graphic design
interior design
computer science
paralegal
doula (if you could do that kind of thing)
These don't take college degrees, or at least not 120 credits.
Talking to a Rav/mentor/person who is good at understanding people is always a good idea. You don't need a degree, but a certificate or course in a field can be the same thing.

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 10:47 AM

sara scheneirer is super expensive too if your not eligible for financial aid. i looke dinto that too.
chaysim - thanks for your suggestions. if you know of any specific courses that your friends took and enjoyed for these things then i would look into it.
their not my dream jobs ( im more of a business/marketing type which does not require a degree, just a good job theat will train you in) but i would do them just to be doing my part and tohave soemthing on my record without going into debt!
if anyone knows of any good courses that friends/family enjoyed that would be amazing!!

life123

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 11:34 AM

If you are looking into business then maybe you should do the paralegal thing. There is no degree, but from what I remember (haven't researched it in a while) you get an Associates degree -not a BA - cores and some business/law classes. Then you can get a job as a legal secretary, which can be more/less law, or just in business, and it is a degree, though less time and money than any other.
You would probably need to do it online to get a program that fits your needs. Touro could probably put together something for you but I know that Touro Flatbush doesn't offer Assocs. You would need to go to SLE or Machon Leparnassa or something like that. (And they are cheaper)

inshidduch-
im613

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 11:52 AM

LuvAhuva:
I didnt mean to attack u; i was just pointing it out because you were saying that you dont want a degree cuz u feel like it doesnt help anyways but u r only getting one because otherwise, in your opinion, no one will want to go out with you. so i was saying that maybe you should ask a rav if your hishtadlus now means getting a degree that u dont even want...sorry if u took it the wrong way
but if ur looking into online, there are some great, not so expensive online courses! im starting a master's online soon iy"H and it's a great option! especially since then u rnt stuck somewhere 🙂

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 1:31 PM

inshidduchim - not at all! i did not feel like you were attacking me. you were just being helpful and you are right perhaps i should ask a higher authority and see what counts as hishtadlus! please do not feel bad. i appreciate your input!
what are you going for that your starting masters now online?

and chaysim: i have assoc from machon lparnassah thabks for your idea!

dancer90

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 6:04 PM

Ahuva, you sound like a really smart girl and i definitely hear your dilemma!
i think boys want a girl with a degree in general because things are very diffucult financially these days and a degree is something good to have to fall back on - often 2 parnasahs are needed to live decently!(although these days not working or working for cash seems to be more worth it....but thats a whole nother topic!)
to me it sounds like right now Hashem did not put you in a situation where college is going to work for you. i dont think loans and small courses are necessary. Perhaps you should just sit back and let Hashem guide you. you tried. you did your research. maybe at this point its safe to say that you are not currently meant to go..and the boy that will marry you WONT CARE about a college degree. and will understand that you are talented and smart and can find a way to make money on your own..something that you enjoy and you wont need ot go into debt for...i know plenty of girls that got married without fancy degrees and i know girls (like you said) who have degrees and no job in sight! or travel and hour and a half each way. maybe asking a Rav is a good idea...the questions would be "how far do you have to go for hishtadlus? are you at the point where you can just say that Hashem is not leading you in the direction of college and you can just let life run its course?''
Perhaps you wont get many dates because boys are pretty into it, but you only need ONE boy who wont care about it inorder to get married! anyone agree with me or am i being unrealistic?

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 7:46 PM

Is the question about getting a college degree because that's what boys want, or is it about getting a degree so that you will iy"H be able to help provide for your family sometime in the future? Do you just want to get a degree so your "value" goes up on the "shidduch market"? (Excuse the expression, the whole value thing is meant sarcastically either way.) If that's your cheshbon, then I think there is something wrong with this picture. If it isn't just about that, then why are you so deathly afraid of financial aid/student loans? Many times you need to spend money to make money. Perhaps you can look into taking out a private loan so your interest rate won't be as high as federal student loans. Also, there are good options for repayment plans for federal loans, such that if you work at a government job for a number of years, the rest of your loan is forgiven. I agree with the commentor(s) who suggested that you ask a rav about your dilemma. It's a good idea to seek daas torah about what your proper hishtadlus should be. Hatzlacha!

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 7:52 PM

Quote from thinkingBYgirl on February 14, 2013, 7:46 PM
Is the question about getting a college degree because that's what boys want, or is it about getting a degree so that you will iy"H be able to help provide for your family sometime in the future? Do you just want to get a degree so your "value" goes up on the "shidduch market"?

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:00 PM

thinkingbygirl -if you read my origianl post you will see this is exactly my problem and y i am afraid of loans. i feel that the job i am looking for does not require a degree however all the boys want girls with degrees and they dont seem to feel that you can still make money without one. so i feel obligated to go for it.and yes i agree there is something wrong with this picture.
and if it does increase the "value of a girl" on the market (LOL) then maybe this is part of my hishtadlus?!? im not sure. regarding the loans - i hear you but most people dont need loans for their bachelors or they at least get some financial aid so the loans are not enormous. but the main thing is my heart is not in it. i have my assoc with a 3.98 GPA and yet i feel like im wasting my time. do i push myself as "hishtadlus" or do i let it go....
thanks for your suggestions you guys are great! and i will speak to a rav need be!

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:00 PM

I hear you. So, I don't think it's necessarily true that guys want girls with degrees. What they want is a girl with a means to make money OR a secure job. If you can do something with your Associate's, and don't need to finish a Bachelor's or Master's, by all means! Bachelor's and Master's hishtadlus is not everyone's proper hishtadlus. If you are only doing it because "what will people say" and "what will people think," then yes, something is wrong! Don't lose sight of what you need to do to be you; don't just do something because everyone else is doing it. I say your best bet is to speak to a rav.

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:09 PM

thanks! yes thats my question. i am bh capable accademically of getting a good degree but do i just do it cuz its excpected even though i have no interest? on top of that it will cost me all my savings.
hmmmmmmm. so confusing! 😕

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:13 PM

If you think you can make enough money without a degree (or the same amount of money as someone with a degree), then why do you care what is "expected"?? G-d is in control, and your bashert won't care that you don't have a degree. Other boys might say no to you, but you don't need to date them!! It only takes one.

LuvAhuva

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on: February 14, 2013, 8:36 PM

thankyouthankyouthankthanyou! that is what i wanted to see -if anyone else will come to that conclusion...i mean i will still speak to a rav but i wanted to hear from other girls too. i dont know if i will make alot of money without a degree but i feel i am determined and i'd rather do something i enjoy. or maybe go back to school at a later time when it works out for me.

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:45 PM

Quote from LuvAhuva on February 14, 2013, 8:36 PM
thankyouthankyouthankthanyou! that is what i wanted to see -if anyone else will come to that conclusion...i mean i will still speak to a rav but i wanted to hear from other girls too. i dont know if i will make alot of money without a degree but i feel i am determined and i'd rather do something i enjoy. or maybe go back to school at a later time when it works out for me.

Now we're talking! To quote Dr. Seuss, "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Don't try to stuff yourself into a box just because that's what is expected of you!

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 8:54 PM

🙂

inshidduch-
im613

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 14, 2013, 10:16 PM

Ahuva-first of all, im going for special ed to answer ur question.

Quote from LuvAhuva on February 14, 2013, 8:36 PM
that is what i wanted to see -if anyone else will come to that conclusion...i mean i will still speak to a rav but i wanted to hear from other girls too.

and also, i def also agree with that!

2funny

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 15, 2013, 5:16 PM

Ahuva- why dont you become a Realtor?

Princess-
Lea

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 18, 2013, 1:13 PM

To go into hock for no reason except you think you won't be able to get a date? That is certainly not hishtadlus I know of plenty of gals who opted not to attend college and chose to work in other areas, and waddya know, they got married. Their bosses find them invaluable and irreplaceable.

There are plenty of job options that don't involve college. And you shouldn't have to apologize to anyone or feel defensive that you are responsible enough not to go into debt to pay for a degree you don't want or need. If you start work right off the bat and live at home, that means you can go into a marriage with a nice nest-egg.

"All the boys want degrees" - how many boys are you planning on marrying? One who wants you for yourself, or one who sees you as the means to support him?

I can say this until I am blue in the face: Do what makes sense for YOU, and YOU alone.

LuvAhuva

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on: February 18, 2013, 6:32 PM

princess Lea- i dont even know you and i LUV you! 😛
this site is awesome 😉

heyhey

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 18, 2013, 6:39 PM

Quote from chaysim on February 14, 2013, 11:34 AM
If you are looking into business then maybe you should do the paralegal thing. There is no degree, but from what I remember (haven't researched it in a while) you get an Associates degree -not a BA - cores and some business/law classes. Then you can get a job as a legal secretary, which can be more/less law, or just in business, and it is a degree, though less time and money than any other.
You would probably need to do it online to get a program that fits your needs. Touro could probably put together something for you but I know that Touro Flatbush doesn't offer Assocs. You would need to go to SLE or Machon Leparnassa or something like that. (And they are cheaper)

intesting paralegal... whats the income like?

life123

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 18, 2013, 11:19 PM

Paralegals jobs and pay vary by office - I looked into it for a while but decided that I wanted a college degree that comes with a more standard pay rate. As a paralegal, at best you can earn as much as a lawyer, at worst as much as a secretary. No standard.

iThink

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: February 18, 2013, 11:23 PM

Quote from Princess Lea on February 18, 2013, 1:13 PM
To go into hock for no reason except you think you won't be able to get a date? That is certainly not hishtadlus I know of plenty of gals who opted not to attend college and chose to work in other areas, and waddya know, they got married. Their bosses find them invaluable and irreplaceable.

There are plenty of job options that don't involve college. And you shouldn't have to apologize to anyone or feel defensive that you are responsible enough not to go into debt to pay for a degree you don't want or need. If you start work right off the bat and live at home, that means you can go into a marriage with a nice nest-egg.

"All the boys want degrees" - how many boys are you planning on marrying? One who wants you for yourself, or one who sees you as the means to support him?

I can say this until I am blue in the face: Do what makes sense for YOU, and YOU alone.

PrincessLeah- You read my mind! A thousand thumbs up!!

rosepetal5

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: May 25, 2013, 10:32 PM

Getting a college degree is never a bad thing!!!! In this day and age, it's often necessary to have some degree, and it's always something you can fall back on. I know plenty of people who wish they had degrees. So do it!! Also, do something you enjoy, not something people tell you to do. You'll be miserable otherwise.
In terms of paying for it: loans are tough, yes, but worth it in the end. There are plenty of loans out there, some with interest, some without. Look into them thoroughly.
Have you looked into scholarships, grants, and work study?? There is money out there, you just have to find it. Have you filled out a FAFSA or done any research? Try collegeboard.com, scholarships.com, zinch.com. They are great resources for looking into all kinds of scholarships.
I would also recommend setting up an appointment with your college's financial aid office. They might not give you money, but they might know ways to get it from other places. There are scholarships based on merit, not need.
Good luck! I HIGHLY suggest getting your degree. You never know where life will take you.

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: September 28, 2013, 10:35 PM

I think you will find that if you don't finish your degree, you will end up regretting it later in life. Once you iy"H get married and start your family, you will be so caught up with your responsibilities that you may not go back to school later. And there may be some jobs available to you without a B.A., but your opportunities will be so much greater with one. Business and marketing is not just a slam dunk. These days companies do want to hire people who are well-educated. I also wonder what your parents think of all this-- after all, presumably they have been paying your tuition up until now, when they feel they can't afford it any more. If you drop out now, might they feel that the money they spent was wasted? I think it's much better to take out student loans. Once you get your degree, you will significantly increase your earning potential, and that will enable you to pay back the loans. By the way, as for your friends who don't make any money after taxes, babysitting, etc, it's still good experience for your resume and will help you get promoted to a job that will actually earn you real money. I understand that this is frustrating in the short term but I think in the long term it will be worth it. Much hatzlacha with whatever you decide!

chaykie

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: September 29, 2013, 3:48 PM

it's so funny for me to read all of this... this is gonna go off on a tangent a little...my mother was just talking to a friend of hers in LAKEWOOD, and her friend said "it's so silly. we are overeducating our girls. if someone doesn't have a degree, they aren't marriage material?? There are plenty of jobs you can get without degrees!" Basically she was saying the system is messed up. She was saying that if a girl and boy want that he should be learning and she should have a degree, fine. but IT DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS TOPIC GETS ME SO ANNOYED!!!!!!!!!! I'll tell you exactly why. I'm not going for a degree. People always to a double take when i tell them that, as if to say "you know that's not acceptable"...well guess what. i have abt 3 major reasons why i am not going for one (and btw, i tried an online school, but the level of education was horrible, and i tried one post secondary school where live, and the education was equally horrible, and it turned out i really had no interest in what i was going for there, so i stopped): A) I have no money to pay for schooling. neither do my parents. B) this may sound weird but throughout all the yrs of my schooling, i was such a good student, sat so quietly at my desk, barely moved, barely spoke (no i'm actually not shy!) and i cannot imagine doing all that again thru college....it's way too painful! By 12th grade i was already bursting! It really took loads and loads of self control and it was waaaaaaaaaay too much....(not that i lack self control now, just to clarify 🙂 ) C) There is not one degree out there that i really want to go for. I don't want to subject myself to the kind of life where i just take any degree as long as it means $$$$$, i don't want to take any degree even though i hate it, but i need the $$$$$....it ends up being such an overwhelming situation for those who do that, and i've heard so many stories where ppl start taking out there emotions of their work situation on their families. i'm a very emotional person, and i do get emotionally tense sometimes, and i do not want to hurt my family because i hate my job. I want to have a job that i enjoy, can use my talents/strengths in, a job that leaves me feeling fulfilled. Anyway, I want to marry a worker/learner, so i guess this whole "college degree is a must" situation, is for girls who want 24/7 learners?

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Post Re: College Degrees!?!
on: September 29, 2013, 8:12 PM

Quote from iThink on February 18, 2013, 11:23 PM

Quote from Princess Lea on February 18, 2013, 1:13 PM
To go into hock for no reason except you think you won't be able to get a date? That is certainly not hishtadlus I know of plenty of gals who opted not to attend college and chose to work in other areas, and waddya know, they got married. Their bosses find them invaluable and irreplaceable.

There are plenty of job options that don't involve college. And you shouldn't have to apologize to anyone or feel defensive that you are responsible enough not to go into debt to pay for a degree you don't want or need. If you start work right off the bat and live at home, that means you can go into a marriage with a nice nest-egg.

"All the boys want degrees" - how many boys are you planning on marrying? One who wants you for yourself, or one who sees you as the means to support him?

I can say this until I am blue in the face: Do what makes sense for YOU, and YOU alone.

PrincessLeah- You read my mind! A thousand thumbs up!!

I think Princess Lea hit the nail on the head here...

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