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Author Topic: what should i do ?
boroparker

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Post what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 4:45 AM

Hi
So basically I'm dating this guy , we've been going out for a little bit than 2 months now , but I feel like there is something wrong , I think its in the way he acts . Also, while talking I could understand that he drinks alcohol very often , to the point of getting drunk , which bother me a lot . Is that enough to end the shidduch ? (knowing that there are minor things which also bother me ) we are supposed to go out again tonight , should I tell him straight or should I just tell the shadchan ? Thank you !

atararox

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 9:57 AM

Wow! This is super serious! I dont think this is the place for sucha matter. If i were you i wud run for my life. Alcholics are usually abusive too. Physically and emotionally! Why does he drink? Is he trying to drown out other feelings? Is he numbing himself to pain? I dont know ur family situation but are there parents or a mentor involved.if so many things are bothering you, how did it get this far??? 2 months is a long time! If you are positive u want to end it, do it to his face. Its harder buts its the right thing. And be honest tell him u feel he has a drinking problem and hats something u dont think u can handle. Did u spk to his rebbe or rav? Oysh this is scary! U dont want to fall in! Hatzlacha!!

Bracha613

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 10:03 AM

I think by the chasidim it might be dif. Are you Chasidish boro parker?

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 10:15 AM

chassidim dont date for 2 months bracha...also there are plenty of non-chssidim in bp. and just because her username is boroparker -that does not mean shes actually from boro park.lol

feigy123

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 10:16 AM

Ok, y'all need to settle down. We don't know how much he drinks; you don't even know how much he drinks. Men like to drink, and most of them do so in a non-abusive manner. Women also like to drink, but yeshivish women usually don't, and usually don't like when their husband drinks. That's ok though; they don't like some of the stuff we do.

Bracha613

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 10:17 AM

I just thought her comment here
http://www.inshidduchim.com/forums/shmooze-group6/vent-forum20/just-cuz-shes-not-perfect-thread165.0/#postid-1186
made her sound chasidesh πŸ˜›

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 10:30 AM

bracha i read the link - that is actually not how it works in chassidish world at all. but she is describing exactly how it works in the litvish/yeshivish world! the chassidim have their things but they happen to be much more down to earth and they look for nice families with a solid frum boy/girl. the litvish world on the other hand...... πŸ™

cool nerd

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 1:53 PM

Boroparker, his drinking might just be social. If his friends drink every Thursday night, maybe he likes to join them. Many single guys drink a lot out of immaturity but once ten get married and settle down, they ease up on the drinking. It sounds like you need to do some more research or maybe even ask the guy about it. Good luck.

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:38 PM

Atararox - he drinks cause he likes it , that is what he told me when I asked , and also because they drink in yeshiva . At the beginning even during research no one told about his drinking , I learned it recently.
Bracha613 - luvahuva - I'm not really chassidish , I don't belong to a specific chassidus.
And I'm from a very open minded family , we don't do beshows ...
I'm from europe and I moved to boro park πŸ˜‰
We date in E"Y . I'm actually back from the date , he is chassidish , and he strongly believe that drinking is part of being a chossid , which I really disagree ... and by the way I plan on telling him that I want to end the shidduch ...
Thank you so much for your answers .

heyhey

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:39 PM

do you have a mentor you can speak with?

feigy123

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:40 PM

BP: I wasn't at your conversations; but, from what you have said so far, I don't know that he drinks any more or less than any normal yeshiva guy. My bros polish off cases of beer when they come home for bein hazmanim (I have a lot of bro's), and I don't think it is anything abnormal.

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:49 PM

Feigy 123- he drinks for no special reason , and I can't stand drunk people , do you imagine , your husband coming back home drunk a front of the kids ?
Moreover I don't know how he reacts when he is drunk , who knows maybe he is violent c"v ... I asked his rabbi , he pretend that he wasn't aware of this.
Heyhey- I don't have anyone to talk to ... Unfortunately

Bracha613

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:51 PM

Why don't u ask someone from this site??

feigy123

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:52 PM

Yes, yeshiva guys drink for no special reason; that is still within normal--depending on how much that is.

You need to distinguish between drinking and getting drunk. A couple of drinks in an evening is not getting drunk. Ask him how often he drinks 4 or more drinks in a night not on shabbos.

Bracha613

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:54 PM

Feigy I don't think most yeshiva guys drink as much as you brothers πŸ˜›
My brothers definitely don't.

feigy123

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 2:57 PM

Nu. some do and some don't. Some girls go to the mall more often than others. Some girls ate more FroYo in har nof than others.

My brothers are the best brothers ever, and you'll be lucky if you marry one of them. Still got a few left. The only time they don't drink beer is on pesach, but they drink enough wine and brandy to make up for it.

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 3:01 PM

I already asked him and its mamish a lot , he can have a whole bottle of wine in an evening ...
Bracha613 - thank you , you are right , I think I'm gonna ask someone from this site .
In the other hand hashkafically , almost everything match ...

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 3:04 PM

your comparing drinking to going to the mall!! oy vey! i also have brothers and brothers -in law and they generally have some schnaps on friday night/make lechaim. and their open minded withit normal guys. they wouldnt just randomly come home from yeshiva drunk or even high. no siree!

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 3:06 PM

Feigy123- as long as they are not drunk ... Its fine .

cool nerd

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 3:23 PM

Boroparker, it also depends on how he holds his liquor. My brother drinks a lot and yet I've never seen him drink. Not even tipsy. But if the drinking itself bothers you, you might want to stop dating him. You'll never get used to it.

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 3:27 PM

Cool nerd- drinking doesn't bother me that much , its being drunk which does.
It seems that he get drunk very easily ...

cool nerd

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 3:58 PM

Then you should probably end it. It's a pretty hard lifestyle to get accustomed to.

heyhey

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 4:55 PM

Quote from heyhey on February 17, 2013, 2:39 PM
do you have a mentor you can speak with?

?

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 4:59 PM

Heyhey - unfortunately I don't have one ... What do you advice ?

heyhey

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 5:27 PM

i think it might be awkward but its impt. to find someone. it doesn't have to be a teacher from school. It could be a married friend who is older than you, a friends mom or best of all go and meet with a Rav in your hometown. Someone you respect, like, and trust is good too.

I have met with rabanim many times. When i leave the office I can breathe and say "wow!" he really clarified this for me. it works.... boroparker- PLZ TRY IT!!! i beg you. this is a lifetime decision you need someone older and wiser to help guide you. if you are too embarrassed to go, just make a call. afterwards you will feel so much better...plus knowing that you have da'as torah helps too πŸ˜€

behatlacha! plz keep us posted!

BaisYaakov-
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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 5:34 PM

As much as everyone on this site whats the best for everyone else, and wants to help, we are all limited as to how much we can!!! we can all tell you our opinions and what we think, but for something so big like this, you really should find someone who knows you to talk to! If not a parent,then maybe a teacher or rav from high school or seminary, or a family rav.. someone!! I mean, were talking about a possible alcoholic,or he could be a totally normal guy who just likes an occational drink! You dont want to say 'no' if its occational, and you definately don't want to say 'yes' if he drinks too much!!!

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 5:51 PM

I may be restating what so many others have already said, but I don't think this is a question that anyone here can answer for you. It's not a simple "is this normal" question. You must proceed with caution!! Drinking is not a small innocuous habit. Also, keep in mind that no one who doesn't know you, ie. a shadchan/rav/therapist answering this type of question in a public forum will be able to really understand the ins and outs of the question enough to steer you in the absolute right direction. You need to talk this through with a rav or mentor, even someone who doesn't know you very well, but will be able to have a proper discussion with you about this. In general having someone obejective to talk to about shidduchim is a good idea, because things can get complicated. Hatzlacha!

iThink

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 5:51 PM

Quote from boroparker on February 17, 2013, 4:45 AM
Hi
So basically I'm dating this guy , we've been going out for a little bit than 2 months now , but I feel like there is something wrong , I think its in the way he acts . Also, while talking I could understand that he drinks alcohol very often , to the point of getting drunk , which bother me a lot . Is that enough to end the shidduch ? (knowing that there are minor things which also bother me ) we are supposed to go out again tonight , should I tell him straight or should I just tell the shadchan ? Thank you !

Hi, BPer, I find it interesting that this thread became about the drinking when you mention "I feel like there is something wrong...in the way he acts", and "is that enough to end the shidduch knowing that there are minor things which also bother me"-in addition to the alcohol concern.

So clearly there are several things about this guy that don't sit right with you, yet you've been going out for about two months. Can you pinpoint what it is that keeps you interested in seeing him despite the concerns you have? What is it that has you going out again all this time? Also, if the alcohol talk bothers you, have you let that on?

atararox

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 6:01 PM

" I dont know ur family situation but are there parents or a mentor involved.if so many things are bothering you, how did it get this far??? 2 months is a long time! "

this is precisely what i was wondering in my first post!
thank you ithink for bringing it up! its a great point! what about all those other things besides for drinking?!?

Bracha613

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 8:04 PM

One more thought. Why can't you just say something like I like you a lot but your drinking gets me very nervous would you be willing to give it up......... (might need to flower it up a bit.)

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 8:12 PM

Quote from Bracha613 on February 17, 2013, 8:04 PM
One more thought. Why can't you just say something like I like you a lot but your drinking gets me very nervous would you be willing to give it up......... (might need to flower it up a bit.)

Don't go there! You cannot marry someone expecting him to change. Especially with something like drinking, which usually fills a psychological need, it's not an easy thing to give up.

Bracha613

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 8:53 PM

Agreed! But if he says he is willing to give it up then it's just a matter of finding out if he's addicted.

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 8:58 PM

"...just a matter of finding out if he's addicted. " How can you know if he's addicted?? And even if he says he's willing, it does not mean that he will be able to (even if he gives it his best shot). Also, it's not fair to someone to ask him to change for you.

gold

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 17, 2013, 10:47 PM

On another note, besides for alcohol being prone to making someone drunk, too much alcohol is poison for the body and can do a lot of damage πŸ™

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 2:32 AM

Thank you for your answers .
Heyhey - by maidel - thinking by girl- I think I may contact a rav I had in HS . I kept contact with his wife , so I think I'm going to do that , thank you so much for the advice . I just feel a little bit awkward talking to them about it you know ...
Ithink - atararox - so basically , the first few dates I didn't know about the drinking , and let's say everything was normal , I mean those minor things "were not here" , till recently , I mean maybe because after a certain number of date people really act like themselves .. Idk what it is . we dated , 7 times in 2 months .
Bracha613 - thinking BY - I agree with thinking BY , it doesn't mean he will change , usually people say "yea ill change" and they don't I can't expect him to change. He is also smoking , he said he want to stop , ok so far he tried , but ... Still I can't based my choice on the fact that he may agree to change. He knows that alcohol bother me in his case , and he didn't say anything about willing to stop , like he did for smoking.

iThink

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 9:16 AM

Boroparker, I'm happy to hear that you're thinking about speaking to a rav. Hopefully you will get clarity on the drinking issue as well as the other new minor issues. Wishing you hatzlacha!

cool nerd

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 11:55 AM

Boroparker, addictions are often genetic. So if he's addicted to smoking, there's a good chance he's addicted to alcohol too. Another thing that you might not be aware of, it's almost impossible to stop smoking if one is drinking. I've spoken to many addicts and they all agree. Drinking and smoking go hand in hand. Every time he takes a drink he wants to smoke. Every time he smokes he wants to drink. Hope it all works out for you!

smile19

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 4:40 PM

Is that a real thing? I never heard that but what's the take on a smoker I feel it's bad but doesn't most boys smoke?? Im I crazy for turning up a shiduch just cuz the boy smoked?

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 4:52 PM

Smile19- I don't think your crazy , its totally ok , to don't want to marry a smoker ... I know a lot of people who refused shidduchim because the guy smoked , I would usually also say no .. but now ... I think its ok as long as he doesn't smoke more than 2 cigarettes. A day

iThink

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 5:23 PM

Quote from smile19 on February 18, 2013, 4:40 PM
....what's the take on a smoker I feel it's bad but doesn't most boys smoke?? Im I crazy for turning up a shiduch just cuz the boy smoked?

And the Great Debate has come up. Date the smoker or not. I say not, and here's why: The hazards of smoking have long since been been publicized and even longer debated. People are aware that smoking is the leading preventable cause of death (al pi derech hateva), and that this is an expensive addiction that very often strains a family financially (in the case of a chain smoker). When I think of these two facts I cannot help but be turned off by the sheer negligence and immaturity of the smoker.

I am aware that most guys begin smoking in their mid to late teens when they simply don't think about these things. But if you're mature enough to be thinking about marriage, it's high time you show some responsibility for your health, and quit the habit. We alI have a responsiblity not to abuse the body that Hashem has given us. I cannot respect a person who somehow feels exempt from that responsibility.

feigy123

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 5:24 PM

Quote from cool nerd on February 18, 2013, 11:55 AM
Boroparker, addictions are often genetic. So if he's addicted to smoking, there's a good chance he's addicted to alcohol too. Another thing that you might not be aware of, it's almost impossible to stop smoking if one is drinking. I've spoken to many addicts and they all agree. Drinking and smoking go hand in hand. Every time he takes a drink he wants to smoke. Every time he smokes he wants to drink. Hope it all works out for you!

Sorry, that makes no sense. Being addicted to smoking is not genetic--it is caused by smoking. I've never met anyone who was addicted who hadn't smoked, and I've never met anyone who smoked for a long time and wasn't addicted.

And being addicted to drinking is very rare, even for people who drink every day. You need to drink many drinks very often to get addicted to alcohol.

iThink

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 5:34 PM

Quote from boroparker on February 18, 2013, 4:52 PM
Smile19- I don't think your crazy , its totally ok , to don't want to marry a smoker ... I know a lot of people who refused shidduchim because the guy smoked , I would usually also say no .. but now ... I think its ok as long as he doesn't smoke more than 2 cigarettes. A day

BoroParker- what happens when somewhere down the line two cigarettes don't cut it for him anymore? Before you make this decision, you should be aware that light smokers often turn to cigarettes when they are stressed. Nicotine causes the brain to release endorphins (a mood stimulant chemical) which are a great "pick me up" when life gets stressful. Unfortunately, it rarely, if ever, stays at two per day. And, BTW, two per day is not necessarily the safe limit in the first place. I really think you should do the full research - you wouldn't want any surprises. Hatzlacha!

iThink

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 5:43 PM

Quote from feigy123 on February 18, 2013, 5:24 PM
Sorry, that makes no sense. Being addicted to smoking is not genetic--it is caused by smoking. I've never met anyone who was addicted who hadn't smoked, and I've never met anyone who smoked for a long time and wasn't addicted.

And being addicted to drinking is very rare, even for people who drink every day. You need to drink many drinks very often to get addicted to alcohol.

Feigy123- Addictions are, in fact, largely due to genetic predispositions. This doesn't mean that I can be a tobacco addict if I never smoked in my life. However, it does mean that my genetic makeup can make me super susceptible to become an addict, should I take on the habit.

There is no smoke-addict gene. But there are genetic factors involved when dealing with addictions in general.

boroparker

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 6:35 PM

Ithink - you are right , about the fact that 2 cigarettes a day means u won't c'v get anything , but let's say its better than a whole box .
I mean chassidish guy if they are not used to smoke usually smoke 1 cigarette a day ... Some Rebbes said it won't do any harm ...

feigy123

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Post Re: what should i do ?
on: February 18, 2013, 7:43 PM

Quote from iThink on February 18, 2013, 5:43 PM

Quote from feigy123 on February 18, 2013, 5:24 PM
Sorry, that makes no sense. Being addicted to smoking is not genetic--it is caused by smoking. I've never met anyone who was addicted who hadn't smoked, and I've never met anyone who smoked for a long time and wasn't addicted.

And being addicted to drinking is very rare, even for people who drink every day. You need to drink many drinks very often to get addicted to alcohol.

Feigy123- Addictions are, in fact, largely due to genetic predispositions. This doesn't mean that I can be a tobacco addict if I never smoked in my life. However, it does mean that my genetic makeup can make me super susceptible to become an addict, should I take on the habit.

There is no smoke-addict gene. But there are genetic factors involved when dealing with addictions in general.

I'm sure there are genetic predispositions. But when 100% of smokers become addicted, I don't think you can conclude that someone who is addicted to smoking has any genetic predisposition.

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