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Author Topic: Goyish Music
Avigail

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Post Goyish Music
on: June 30, 2013, 4:09 PM

I am currently dating a boy he has a beautiful voice and composes songs (he actually played me some songs he composed.) He tells me he listens to Goyish music, including women, in order to help him compose songs. He thinks it's ok because some Poskim are Matir it.... I don't know what to think, on the one hand it's going well and he seems like a nice boy, on the other hand it just seems wrong to me. There are Poskim who Mater a lot of things but some things are just not accepted, know what I mean?

feigy123

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: June 30, 2013, 4:34 PM

Goyish music: I think it depends what he is listening to. Ask him, and go listen to it, and see if it bothers you.

Women singing: what, you don't listen to women singing? (jk). I dunno. I think even this you should be willing to view in the broad picture of who he is.

patcha

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: June 30, 2013, 8:59 PM

Quote from feigy123 on June 30, 2013, 4:34 PM
Goyish music: I think it depends what he is listening to. Ask him, and go listen to it, and see if it bothers you.

Women singing: what, you don't listen to women singing? (jk). I dunno. I think even this you should be willing to view in the broad picture of who he is.

Agree with feigy.

basmelech

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 1, 2013, 9:17 PM

It sounds wrong ( pardon the pun 😉 )
kol isha is assur to listen to. H-shem told us, so there is a reason for that. Ask a rav please not us.
A yiras Shamayim is a trustworthy husband. You want that and so does everyone else. Someone lacking in yiras Shamayim is someone I cant fully trust. The two go together. I hope you find a husband iy"H that is worthy of your trust! 🙂

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 1, 2013, 11:34 PM

Basmelech, you raise some good points.

However, I'm not trying to nitpick, just isn't it D"Rabbanan and the reason is because we don't want the men to end up liking the singer? That's why some people listen to recorded goyishe music, but will not go see them in concert, for example.

Also, in regard to Avigail's earlier question: why don't you tell him to ask his Rav about it - not just do it because he knows some other Rabbanim are matir it, and if he doesn't want to - there's your answer: he just wants to listen to it for the reasons he said and is not really interested in finding out if it's ok for him to. **But you should also ask a mentor - don't just decide from us on here.

basmelech

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 2, 2013, 6:35 PM

It might be rabbanan not sure about that. Thanks for pointing that out. I have to be more carefull the way I say it. But even rabbanan is 100% assur to listen to unless you get a heter from your rav.

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 2, 2013, 6:38 PM

That's true and right.
A person should always ask their personal rav sheilos and not just rely on hearsay from other rabbanim that say it's mutar.

Avigail

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 3, 2013, 11:00 PM

Quote from TryToDoWhatsRight on July 1, 2013, 11:34 PM
Also, in regard to Avigail's earlier question: why don't you tell him to ask his Rav about it - not just do it because he knows some other Rabbanim are matir it, and if he doesn't want to - there's your answer: he just wants to listen to it for the reasons he said and is not really interested in finding out if it's ok for him to.

Thanks for your advice everyone.
I don't know if boys have to ask a Rav as much as girls. They could kind of Pasken for themselves sometimes I think.

shaynapuni-
m

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 7, 2013, 4:26 PM

I think you have to use your judgement with this one... the goyish music is one thing but the kol isha issues sounds a bit more concerning to me.... you have to try to figure out if he has a lax attitude towards halacha in general, ie. always just looking for a heter or if he really asked a Rebbe this shailoh and got a specific p'sak for him. if it is the former you also have to be realistic with yourself and see if u want someone who is more makil or machmir

hannahr

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 7, 2013, 6:32 PM

Avigail: Why would boys be able to pasken for themselves and not girls? Especially as in this case it's really not a clear-cut halachic issue, as you established at the beginning.
Everybody has their own negios when it comes to halachic shailos. I usually ask my grandfather my shailos, but when it's something that could potentially be harmful to me if he rules one way, I ask someone else because I know he wouldn't want to cause me any kind of bad and he might try to do his best to make it work for me even if it's not the best thing.
Obviously, this guy has negios when it comes to this question. He feels like he needs to listen to music for his work- no matter how much of a talmid chacham he may be, he'll still have that running through his mind when he looks for an answer. Everyone can use an impartial arbiter of the REAL halacha, without any negios behind it.
Maybe if you put a milchig spoon in the fleishig sink a guy can pasken on his own- in personal matters where he needs guidance, there's really no sefer you can read to learn the answer- sometimes you need someone else who's outside.
This has nothing to do with an answer to your question, because to be honest, I don't have an answer- there are so many factors. I just figured this is a useful misconception to clear up.

shaynapuni-
m

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 7, 2013, 9:15 PM

Quote from hannahr on July 7, 2013, 6:32 PM
Avigail: Everybody has their own negios when it comes to halachic shailos.
Obviously, this guy has negios when it comes to this question.

+1 well said.......

hannahr

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: July 7, 2013, 11:12 PM

shaynapunim: Thanks! (Sorry, haven't yet figured how you guys quote stuff- MUCH too fancy for me.)

soconfused

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: August 1, 2013, 9:29 AM

from what i understand there a (sadly) many "yeshivish" guys who have fallen into listening to women singing i guess becoz its so easy to get hold of these days. i think many guys stop listening after they get married and its just a phase they go thru as a guy, ask him if this is the case or he actually enjoys it to the extent that he cant see himself ever stopping....

not-
nogeiah-
who

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: August 1, 2013, 10:49 AM

Quote from soconfused on August 1, 2013, 9:29 AM
from what i understand there a (sadly) many "yeshivish" guys who have fallen into listening to women singing i guess becoz its so easy to get hold of these days. i think many guys stop listening after they get married and its just a phase they go thru as a guy, ask him if this is the case or he actually enjoys it to the extent that he cant see himself ever stopping....

I'm sorry, soconufused - but that is no excuse and unacceptable!! To me that shows a lack of yiras Shamayim... so just because this taivah is a phase it's okay? what if there are more taivahs that such a guy will have -"it's only a phase!"
Of course! because every taivah loses it's appeal eventually! So every taivah he falls for - and if there's one, there will be more - is just a fase!

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: August 2, 2013, 12:17 AM

Excuse me for stereotyping, but I think it's a certain type of guy who will rely on a heter to listen to recorded kol eisha. And the secular music is it's own issue. However, that's colored by my biases. I think that you need to ask yourself honestly if you're okay with this. Do you listen to secular music? Why or why not? Is that reason not important in a spouse? The fact that he composes might give him a reason (he appreciates music, he gains inspiration from it, etc), but it isn't an excuse.

(Just my two cents, because it goes without saying that you should discuss this with a rav or mentor.)

bibliophil-
e02

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: September 24, 2013, 7:27 AM

Yes, there are those who mattir it, even if they are in the minority. What you really have to ask yourself is this: how would you feel about your sons listening to goyishe music? Because that is likely to happen if you marry this boy. Whomever you marry, you will accept his halachic authority and minhagim (both l'chumra and l'kula). So if this particular issue is making you uncomfortable, you should seriously consider whether or not you will be able to live with it long-term.

On the other hand, are you a good hashkafic fit in general? If this is the only issue on which the two of you disagree, you may be able to come to terms with it (perhaps ask him to explain the halacha to you in depth, or go to a rav together if it comes to that). But it may be symptomatic of a larger hashkafic split that would make you incompatible.

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: September 24, 2013, 9:55 PM

Welcome to Inshidduchim bibliophile02!! Your comment above is very insightful btw 🙂

bibliophil-
e02

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: September 25, 2013, 9:15 AM

Thank you 😀

batsheva60-
1

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: March 12, 2014, 4:08 AM

Im not really familiar with the halachik issues involved but I think that listing to goyish music can lead to more harmfull participation in secular culture, or it can be symptomatic of such in the present

Sevengirl

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: April 3, 2016, 12:40 AM

I personally try to avoid secular music so it makes me a bit uncozy if the guy listens

InShidduch-
imFollower

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Post Re: Goyish Music
on: October 30, 2016, 8:23 PM

yeah, I had an interesting experience recently...I dated a guy and he did listen to non jewish music and he watches movies. when he told me that I was quite honestly surprised, cuz I would never imagine that of him. He even told me he knows its wrong but he cant give it up cuz hes bored at this point in life. (I'm in my later 20s and hes in his early 30s). And I asked him if he would want his children to do the same. He said- no of course not. So I said to him, so how can you expect more of your children than of yourself? He was quite taken aback by that...but anyway, it was our last date

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