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Author Topic: Marrying Donny
Avigail

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Post Marrying Donny
on: May 11, 2013, 10:05 PM

So I was thinking over Shabbos how everyone wants to marry Donny (from the ongoing story)..... I was wondering why.....So I was thinking that maybe all girls really want a working guy who loves learning.....but as soon as the shadchanim hear you want a learning guy...you get redt to guys who are not so into learning....so that's why girls say they want a learning guy....
Am I right?????

atararox

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 11, 2013, 10:17 PM

first of all guys like Donny are rare!(remember he's fictional and until now we've only seen him in a positive light) second of all, Donny is 26 and he already did a nice few years of learning..he didn't just go to work at 20. these factors are all really important. and I for one tell shadchanim all the time that if a guy already did a few years in beis medrash and now he felt he wants to move on and go to college/work then I am perfectly ok with that....

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 11, 2013, 10:39 PM

And then there's the question of marrying the working guy who has a number of years of learning under his belt, but he's working. He values learning, but now he's working. Which is fine, but a lot of girls want their husband to learn during shana rishona...

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 11, 2013, 11:30 PM

There's a difference between a working guy and a college guy. College guys have more of an apprecuation for intellectually minded activity. Such as learning where as a working guy won't nes. have the 'zitz fliesh' that a college guy has. Obviously taking into a vast amount of considerations and of course depending on the trade etc.. There aren't too many learning guys these days that REALLY love learning and know how to learn really well. A lot of guys are in it to get the Shidduch. That's why a college guy is safer. They are more real and down to earth with regards to Wht life has to offer.

Princess-
Lea

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 13, 2013, 11:45 AM

Generalizations don't really have any place in dating. I have gone out with both working and learning guys, and the most learned guy I went out with was an accountant.

feigy123

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 14, 2013, 5:54 PM

As atarox said, Donny is 26 which is why he can have learned a lot and also be working now but still be single.

And as Princess said, generalizations are always flawed.

But the real answer, is that Donny's don't exist. And here are my generalizations, from experience:

Guys who leave yeshiva at 21 to go work or to college aren't into learning and aren't very good at it.
Guys who leave at 25-26 and are still single are good at learning, but probably have some negativity associated with it, which is related to why they left, and more related to why they are still single.

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Lea

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 17, 2013, 11:20 AM

My experience goes the other way, but based on a different theory:

There are some men who will know how to learn no matter when they leave yeshiva. Even if they left at 21, they can still pull a sefer off the shelf and look something up no problem. Then there are the other men, who can stay with it as long as they are in it. Once they leave, even if they are 25, or 30, they loose it, unless they make a point to attend shiurim regularly.

I've actually gone out with a few Donnys myself.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 22, 2013, 4:36 PM

Please lets not generalize. Each person is an individual and we can't group everyone together by saying these are learners.. these are earner/learners... you can get a basic understanding, but you never know the whole picture until you really get to know someone well.

feigy123

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 22, 2013, 6:06 PM

Quote from basmelech on May 22, 2013, 4:36 PM
Please lets not generalize. Each person is an individual and we can't group everyone together by saying these are learners.. these are earner/learners... you can get a basic understanding, but you never know the whole picture until you really get to know someone well.

I think generalizing is good. It allows us to make decisions if we need to where we only have minimal information.

Of course, when you generalize it is important to remember there are exceptions.

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 22, 2013, 6:59 PM

No matter how individualized a person is he always belongs to a generalized group. Dn't be naive about things it's a bad idea to put on rose colored glasses. During dating you are supposed to analyze all the negative and after commitment you are meant to adorn those glasses. Face it Guys with problems have problems.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 22, 2013, 9:07 PM

I still dont like when people generalize. It puts everyone in one boat. 😐 so its Lashon hara

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 22, 2013, 9:33 PM

Just like I dn't like peer pressure it puts everyone in one boat. 😉

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 22, 2013, 10:58 PM

Yes but peer pressure to do good things is great! Imagine if we would all be peer pressured into doing chessed... 🙂

feigy123

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 12:16 AM

Quote from basmelech on May 22, 2013, 10:58 PM
Yes but peer pressure to do good things is great! Imagine if we would all be peer pressured into doing chessed... 🙂

I'm going to disagree with that. Peer pressure to do good things is also bad, because then we lose the ability to do it for the correct reasons.

Hashem doesn't need us to do chessed so that the people are helped; Hashem can help them Himself. Hashem wants us to do chessed in order to emulate him, and He doesn't do it because of peer pressure; He does it because He is rav chessed.

Bracha

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 12:18 AM

Yes but...
מתוך שלא לשמה בא לשמה

feigy123

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 1:03 AM

That's a good point. I have to consider that.

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 3:57 AM

Quote from Bracha on May 23, 2013, 12:18 AM
Yes but...
מתוך שלא לשמה בא לשמה

I agree but you'll only come to doing whtever it is lishma if you havnt put yourself into a nissayon in order to accomplish doing it lishma

So if a girl is marrying a learning guy out of peer preasure or brainwashing she will only accomplish having her husband learn lishma if she hasn't put herself into a nissayon in order to do so. Eg: the financial burden on hers and parents shoulders For the next number of years that they Agreed to Prior to her going out with Her husband to be. She won't get the zechus of his full time learning (sometimes eventually) lishma without any worries for himself and his family since ma pa and wife are supporting. If she is resentful of the nisyonos she has PUT herself into.

When she comes dwn to earth once tht fluff fades. The question is how will she deal with it then?
U need to know if u can handle it. Most girls nowadays can't but think they can because everyone else is doing it.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 3:12 PM

The way you act outside has an influence on the inside! So if someones going to, lets say smile a lot more they will start being a happier person. You can try it. 😉 Yes cherry a person should not place themselves purposely in a sit. where they know they will probably fail.

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 3:43 PM

[b]Quote from basmelech on Cherry. Yes cherry a person should not place themselves purposely in a sit. where they know they will probably fail.

And yes you are right. The point is most are blinded by peer pressure. They really dn't know why they are REALLY going for a ' 'learning' boy. Until it hits them. Sometimes too late.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 4:38 PM

Quote from Cherry on May 23, 2013, 3:57 AM

When she comes dwn to earth once tht fluff fades. The question is how will she deal with it then?
U need to know if u can handle it. Most girls nowadays can't but think they can because everyone else is doing it.

Cherry, it is important to know how you can handle it but even more so how you feel about it! If someone really loves and values Torah, and their views are not misconstrued then they will prepare properly for it beforehand not because "everyone else is doing it so I am also". Depending on parents to support forever is not adeqaute hishtadlus. They will have to get a degree, or take a course or do something to show that they really want and would love to be able to partly/fully support their husband in learning Torah. Like I said about the cure for cancer, if you know and value the worth of something you will do what it takes to make it happen! If someone is looking for a learning boy solely because that is the "thing to do" then that is a problem and like you said they will have consenquences to face later on in life. So my advice to all is figure out what type of boy you really want before you get engaged iy"H, and speak to someone older and wiser to help you figure it out, too.

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 4:54 PM

Quote from Cherry on May 23, 2013, 3:57 AM

Quote from Bracha on May 23, 2013, 12:18 AM
Yes but...
מתוך שלא לשמה בא לשמה

I agree but you'll only come to doing whtever it is lishma if you havnt put yourself into a nissayon in order to accomplish doing it lishma

So if a girl is marrying a learning guy out of peer preasure or brainwashing she will only accomplish having her husband learn lishma if she hasn't put herself into a nissayon in order to do so. Eg: the financial burden on hers and parents shoulders For the next number of years that they Agreed to Prior to her going out with Her husband to be. She won't get the zechus of his full time learning (sometimes eventually) lishma without any worries for himself and his family since ma pa and wife are supporting. If she is resentful of the nisyonos she has PUT herself into.

When she comes dwn to earth once tht fluff fades. The question is how will she deal with it then?
U need to know if u can handle it. Most girls nowadays can't but think they can because everyone else is doing it.

patcha

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 6:11 PM

Quote from feigy123 on May 23, 2013, 12:16 AM
I'm going to disagree with that. Peer pressure to do good things is also bad, because then we lose the ability to do it for the correct reasons.

Hashem doesn't need us to do chessed so that the people are helped; Hashem can help them Himself. Hashem wants us to do chessed in order to emulate him, and He doesn't do it because of peer pressure; He does it because He is rav chessed.

I like this very much. feigy always writes the best divrei torah.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 9:05 PM

H-shem can help Himself and doesn't need peer pressure because there is no such a thing by Him! We as mortal human beings sometimes need that extra push to start us on the right path. That is why metoch shelo lishmah ba lishmah. 🙂 In hilchos lashon hara it says that in some (check out the exact specific circumstances please before you put this into action) situations it is permissable to speak about someone if the peer pressure will cause him to stop. Another example is when beis din rules against someone who refuses to give his wife a get, they can publicly anounce him so that the peer pressure will hopefully cause him to repent. Here are 2 perfect examples of peer pressure that is for good things! 🙂

Cherry

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 23, 2013, 10:22 PM

b]Quote from basmelech on May 23, 2013, 9:05 We as mortal human beings sometimes need that extra push to start us on the right path. That is why metoch shelo lishmah ba lishmah. 🙂

End of quote]]]]]]][[

[[]]
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You won't come to having your husband learn lishma if you have a stumbling blocks. So if it's out of peer pressure that you make YOUR LIFE'S decision with, you've just gotta make sure u have no stumbling blocks that will prevent you from doing it lishma. Be prepared! 😉

Bracha613

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 12:05 AM

I don't think it's true or nice to say most people only want to marry a learning boy because of pear preasure. What horrible Lashon Harah to say on Hashem's children!
Apparently you are not looking for a learning boy. Fine. Great. Don't assume though that nobody else wants a learning boy for the right reasons!

atararox

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 9:42 AM

Hmmm bracha613 - come on, don't say that people don't do things just so yenem will be impressed! Besides, it's a natural instinct. No one wants to be the odd one out. When all ur friends are marrying learning boys, for the right reasons or not, u don't wanna be different even if ur torn between both ideals. Especially since learning is a chashuv thing!

atararox

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 9:59 AM

My mother recently met a high school teacher of mine so of course she asked my mother what I'm looking for. i do come from an open minded fam and I have bils that are working but i an frummer than my sisters with different hashkafos so I'm kinda stuck in the middle anyways my mom told this teacher that I'm looking for a learning boy- u know what she said?
She answered " oh Baruch HaShem! I was so worried about her! But I'm glad she made the right descision!"
Now how am I supposed to feel?maybe I will end up with a working boy but I will always have it in my head that maybe I made a wrong descision !

feigy123

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 10:10 AM

Hmm, is that really an objectively right and wrong decision? No. So the teacher is teaching you something wrong. I say you do like Yoav.

Bracha613

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 11:49 AM

Quote from atararox on May 24, 2013, 9:42 AM
Hmmm bracha613 - come on, don't say that people don't do things just so yenem will be impressed! Besides, it's a natural instinct. No one wants to be the odd one out. When all ur friends are marrying learning boys, for the right reasons or not, u don't wanna be different even if ur torn between both ideals. Especially since learning is a chashuv thing!

Sorry! Of course some people bend to peer pressure I really meant to comment on what was said about peer pressure on another thread that everyone is just bending to peer pressure I wrote it here by mistake.

The comment was

Quote from Cherry on May 22, 2013, 7:06 PM
There shouldn't be any full time learners. A man is meant to support his family. Noone is on the madrigal these days to do it lishma. It's peer pressure. If it wasn't a fad no one would do it. Of course we all love our Torah and we would make time for it. But trust me if not for this fluffy peer pressure in this generation it wouldn't be done. It annoys me how much pple deceive themselves.

patcha

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 1:55 PM

Quote from feigy123 on May 24, 2013, 10:10 AM
Hmm, is that really an objectively right and wrong decision? No. So the teacher is teaching you something wrong. I say you do like Yoav.

Kill Avshalom? He's dead already.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 24, 2013, 3:56 PM

Atararox, just cause the teacher said a comment doesn't mean anything. dont take it so personally. You make the right decision. You only have to do what H-shem wants not what anyone else tells you to do. Learning boy is a beautiful thing but applying the learning is what really matters! Hatzlacha and may H-shem help you make the right decision! 🙂

rosepetal5

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 26, 2013, 12:10 AM

Addressing the forum question: I think one of the reasons women love Donny is because women made him up. Women made him into a person with some of the best qualities they want in a man. Makes sense in a fictional character.

basmelech

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Post Re: Marrying Donny
on: May 26, 2013, 12:22 AM

Great reasoning rosepetal5! 🙂

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