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Author Topic: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
thinkingBY-
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Post Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 3:59 AM

Feigy123 (http://www.inshidduchim.com/forums/shmooze-group6/schmooze-about-dating-forum45/what-who-is-looking-for-thread216/) said,

The man is the one who sets the dynamic of the marriage. He is the one who is learning or working, is leading the yiddishkeit, etc. So yes, what is important for a girl is to get the kind of guy she is looking for--that is, who will lead in the way that she wants her family to be.

My question, do you think this is widely true? I've had this conversation with more than one guy on dates and they each have claimed that it is the woman who is responsible for setting the tone in the home. She is the one who creates the "bayis," and in general women are more ruchniyus-inclined. I tend to agree that it is the man who "leads the yiddishkeit," because hopefully he is the one who is rooted (via his learning, even if it's only for a small amount of time a day) and generally the couple looks toward the guy's rebbeim for hadracha.

What do you think? Is it the guy or the girl who dominates here?

InShidduch-
imFollower

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 10:06 AM

chazal clearly state "chochmas noshim bonsa beisah, v'iveles byodeha t'harsena". it is the woman's job to set the tone of the house. it is the woman that teaches the children.

dancer90

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 10:46 AM

yep i agree with inshidduchimfollower. the woman influnces her husband and if she will encourage him to learn then thats what he will be doing. a woman also has a Bina yeseira because Hashem knows that she will be the one to guide her family in the right derech. the men rule the practical part - halachos, minhagim.
the woman set the tone of emunah, yiras shamayim and ahavas hashem. no question.

feigy123

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 1:48 PM

Yeah, maybe you guys are correct. So then we really should change the directions in the Be a Shadchan forum. Unless we're trying to make unhappy marriages.

Sari

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 2:12 PM

Feigy I don't know if you noticed but this site is for girls.... So obviously it's going to ask the girls what they are looking for (included in that is what they are) and then ask someone to describe a boy (included in that is what they are looking for)

feigy123

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 2:20 PM

Sari: Yes, I am well aware of that, and I don't think that makes any sense, unless we are trying to set up marriages where only one party will be happy.

Sari

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 2:37 PM

Huh? Explain please.

feigy123

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 2:45 PM

I mean, that the boy is also looking for certain things in a wife. And the girl also has characteristics beyond what she is looking for in a boy. So asking the girl what she is looking for, and presenting what a boy is like, only gives you half the information.

Notably, it gives you all the information that the girl would care about, if she thinks it is possible to have a marriage where only one side is happy. Hence my cynicism.

I'll give you a simplistic example, where each one has 1 character trait and is looking for one thing. Suppose the girl is looking for a guy who is very spiritual. And the guy is very spiritual. Sounds like a good match. Until you find out that the guy is looking for someone with a sense of humor, and the girl cannot tell a joke to save her marriage.

You see what I mean?

Sari

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 2:48 PM

Feigy I don't know if you noticed but this site is for girls.... So obviously it's going to ask the girls what they are looking for (included in that is what they are) and then ask someone to describe a boy (included in that is what they are looking for)

feigy123

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 2:52 PM

Oh, ok. I didn't find that obvious, but that sounds fine.

patcha

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 7:08 PM

Both set a tone in the home. The father is the anchor of the mothership.

thinkingBY-
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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 10:15 PM

My question is more about the following.

I think this is correct: "The man is the one who sets the dynamic of the marriage. He is the one who is learning or working, is leading the yiddishkeit, etc. So yes, what is important for a girl is to get the kind of guy she is looking for--that is, who will lead in the way that she wants her family to be."

and I think that the aforementioned is correct: "chochmas noshim bonsa beisah..." and "a woman also has a Bina yeseira because Hashem knows that she will be the one to guide her family in the right derech. the men rule the practical part - halachos, minhagim. the woman set the tone of emunah, yiras shamayim and ahavas hashem."

So, does one side pull more weight? I guess objectively the boy and the girl should widely have the same hashkafos. But, when a guy says, "Well, it's cool that you're "frummer" than me because women usually are." Can it be true that her hashkafos will have the most influence in shaping her home?

iThink

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 10:43 PM

Quote from thinkingBYgirl on March 3, 2013, 10:15 PM
I guess objectively the boy and the girl should widely have the same hashkafos. But, when a guy says, "Well, it's cool that you're "frummer" than me because women usually are." Can it be true that her hashkafos will have the most influence in shaping her home?

Well how would that work? She'll be much more enthusiastic and devoted to her Yiddishkeit and totally cool if he doesn't share that passion? I understand that it's super important in her role as Mommy (and perhaps less so when it comes to paternal duties), but what about her role as wife? Shouldn't they be more or less on the same page here?

iThink

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 3, 2013, 10:52 PM

I have seen some families where either parent is more expressive about spiritual matters. But that's very different from being more spirtual than your spouse.

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 4, 2013, 6:11 PM

at his wedding, my brother was just a typical regular yeshiva guy. a good guy, not especially spiritual but had his head on straight. my sis in law is a very deep girl and she obviously saw that my bro has tonz of potential...well let me tell you today he is a big talmid chacham. he is so spirtiual and so frum and he lives his life for Hashem. i believe the credit goes 90 percent to my sis in law. yes, he chose her because he wanted to grow, but SHE was the one wo encouraged him to learn and portrayed yiddishkeit and torah in sucha positive light that it inspired him to want to grow. i cant even say that when they got married they had the same hashkafos in every area....some people would not agree with that but bh it worked out well.

iThink

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 4, 2013, 9:47 PM

LuvAhuva- I thought about your last post, and I agree that sometimes it works. Baruch Hashem your brother and SIL were one of those! 🙂

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 5, 2013, 9:54 AM

Tone-setting does not have specific rules. Whoever makes the point to set the tone, bam, there's the tone.

LuvAhuva

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 5, 2013, 9:42 PM

right. i think in every marriage one spouse is more dominant and usually the tone of the house will go according to them. hopefully it will be whichever one has higher aspirations but unfortunately i have seen it go the other way too.

Cherry

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 6, 2013, 4:44 PM

A household where one spouse is more dominant than the other needs therapy. This is not a healthy relationship.

atararox

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 6, 2013, 6:18 PM

no necessarily true cherry. sometimes one spouse has a stronger leadership personality and thats perfectly ok as a matter of fact its normal. when there are two strong personalities - thats when therapy is needed. or when neither one can make a descision - also a call for therapy. as long as the one whose more dominant is a mentch and not controlling in an abusive unhealthy way and takes the other persons needs and opinions into consideration, it perfectly ok to have one spouse who is more opinonated and a clearer thinker. a leadership personality and a control freak are two very different ends up the spectrum. a person who is a natural leader can achieve great things.

feigy123

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 7, 2013, 8:32 AM

au contraire mon cherrie

The normal human dynamic for 6k years has been that the male is more dominant. I'll take my chances with it.

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 7, 2013, 1:39 PM

As I recall our Imahos put their feet down on quite a few occasions, and their husbands said, "Yes, dear."

Cherry

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 7, 2013, 1:57 PM

In a healthy relationship both the woman and man recognise and respect that one has particular strengths that the other half doesn't have.

Atara rox: I totally hear Wht you're saying. "a leadership personality and a control freak are two very different ends up the spectrum. a person who is a natural leader can achieve great things." I definitely agree.

feigy- 'the man being the Man of the household entails the responsibly of looking after the woman and children. The more dominant perspective is a perspective that is not the healthiest.

Cherry

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: March 7, 2013, 1:59 PM

Princess lea- lol!!

basmelech

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 27, 2013, 11:57 PM

The woman. 🙂 Lets start at the begining Chava caused Adam to eat from the eitz hadas. Korach's wife caused him to rebel against H-shem. Akiva's wife enabled him to learn in yeshiva for 14 years straight. The woman did not sin with cheit haegel. Because of Rachel Imeinu we are going to be taken out of galus iy"H. From Rus comes Moshiach. And it goes on and on and on... Plus when a gadol is asked "how did you become so great?" they usually reply because of my mother. Woman are the builders they raise the children, which is the next generation. As inshidduchimfollower said, "chochmas noshim bonsa beisah, v'iveles byodeha t'harsena". 🙂

patcha

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 12:49 AM

Quote from basmelech on May 27, 2013, 11:57 PM
The woman. 🙂 Lets start at the begining Chava caused Adam to eat from the eitz hadas. Korach's wife caused him to rebel against H-shem. Akiva's wife enabled him to learn in yeshiva for 14 years straight. The woman did not sin with cheit haegel. Because of Rachel Imeinu we are going to be taken out of galus iy"H. From Rus comes Moshiach. And it goes on and on and on... Plus when a gadol is asked "how did you become so great?" they usually reply because of my mother. Woman are the builders they raise the children, which is the next generation. As inshidduchimfollower said, "chochmas noshim bonsa beisah, v'iveles byodeha t'harsena". 🙂

So I see I responded in this thread, but it was more of a throwaway line, and I want to respond to this.

First, your examples are an odd jumble of random places women are mentioned in Chumash, which do not prove your point. Had woman listened to man in the first place (Adam) the sin wouldn't have happened. And merit has little to do with tone.

Secondly, about the gadol, your point would be more convincing if he said that it was because of his wife.

Thirdly, afaik Mishlei said that line, and inshidduchimfollower is quoting him. 🙂

More seriously, I'm surprised at all the feminists arguing in this thread. Of course the man has to lead and set the tone in his own home. He is the man of the house and if you respect and trust him you should want him to be in charge.

I once heard from someone Chabad that a man is like a sun and a woman is like a moon, and your job is to reflect his light. So when you are dating, you are trying to find a sun whose light you want to reflect. 🙂

Cherry

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 3:45 AM

Quote from patcha on May 28, 2013, 12:49 AM

Quote from basmelech on May 27, 2013, 11:57 PM
The woman. 🙂 Lets start at the begining Chava caused Adam to eat from the eitz hadas. Korach's wife caused him to rebel against H-shem. Akiva's wife enabled him to learn in yeshiva for 14 years straight. The woman did not sin with cheit haegel. Because of Rachel Imeinu we are going to be taken out of galus iy"H. From Rus comes Moshiach. And it goes on and on and on... Plus when a gadol is asked "how did you become so great?" they usually reply because of my mother. Woman are the builders they raise the children, which is the next generation. As inshidduchimfollower said, "chochmas noshim bonsa beisah, v'iveles byodeha t'harsena". 🙂

So I see I responded in this thread, but it was more of a throwaway line, and I want to respond to this.

First, your examples are an odd jumble of random places women are mentioned in Chumash, which do not prove your point. Had woman listened to man in the first place (Adam) the sin wouldn't have happened. And merit has little to do with tone.

Secondly, about the gadol, your point would be more convincing if he said that it was because of his wife.

Thirdly, afaik Mishlei said that line, and inshidduchimfollower is quoting him. 🙂

More seriously, I'm surprised at all the feminists arguing in this thread. Of course the man has to lead and set the tone in his own home. He is the man of the house and if you respect and trust him you should want him to be in charge.

I once heard from someone Chabad that a man is like a sun and a woman is like a moon, and your job is to reflect his light. So when you are dating, you are trying to find a sun whose light you want to reflect. 🙂

Nice patcha:)
Another thing is though it says that a man has external strengths where as a woman has internal strengths. And together they become one. The woman is the internal strength behind the man's external Stregth. In a husband and wife relationship they both need to respect that one is vulnerable in areas that the other has strengths. A dominant relationship is not healthy. Respect from both parties in a relationship is the most common key for success.

patcha

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 8:55 AM

Cherry: Thanks. But I'm not sure what you mean by the dominant point. I don't see a contradiction between him being the dominant one in the relationship, and loving and respecting his wife. That's the way things are supposed to be.

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 10:52 AM

Why can't the man and woman work together to set the tone for their home? It is a partnership after all. I see what you guys are saying about each having their own strengths, but I honestly think it works best when they work together.

I've seen marriages where one spouse tries to set the tone on their own. It doesn't always work so well.

basmelech

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 2:58 PM

Quote from patcha on May 28, 2013, 12:49 AM

Quote from basmelech on May 27, 2013, 11:57 PM
The woman. 🙂 Lets start at the begining Chava caused Adam to eat from the eitz hadas. Korach's wife caused him to rebel against H-shem. Akiva's wife enabled him to learn in yeshiva for 14 years straight. The woman did not sin with cheit haegel. Because of Rachel Imeinu we are going to be taken out of galus iy"H. From Rus comes Moshiach. And it goes on and on and on... Plus when a gadol is asked "how did you become so great?" they usually reply because of my mother. Woman are the builders they raise the children, which is the next generation. As inshidduchimfollower said, "chochmas noshim bonsa beisah, v'iveles byodeha t'harsena". 🙂

So I see I responded in this thread, but it was more of a throwaway line, and I want to respond to this.

First, your examples are an odd jumble of random places women are mentioned in Chumash, which do not prove your point. Had woman listened to man in the first place (Adam) the sin wouldn't have happened. And merit has little to do with tone. A)

Secondly, about the gadol, your point would be more convincing if he said that it was because of his wife. B)

Thirdly, afaik Mishlei said that line, and inshidduchimfollower is quoting him. 🙂 C)

More seriously, I'm surprised at all the feminists arguing in this thread. Of course the man has to lead and set the tone in his own home. He is the man of the house and if you respect and trust him you should want him to be in charge. D)

I once heard from someone Chabad that a man is like a sun and a woman is like a moon, and your job is to reflect his light. So when you are dating, you are trying to find a sun whose light you want to reflect. E) 🙂

A) I picked only a few of the woman mentioned throughout the Torah, you can find much, much more if you would like to check it out for yourself. This is just a sampling. Chava told Adam yes to eat from it. Chava set the "tone" (albeit the wrong way here) in the home.

B) I think it is pretty convincing besides for that many gedolim do give their wife the credit. A) in the merit of the woman means that because of the way the woman helped her husband, ie. set the tone in the house to focus on Torah by supporting him and raising the children like that.

C) thank you for pointing that out! 🙂

D) The man should be in charge and set the tone and you should trust and respect him of course! but know that the woman sets it firmly in place. Sorry if im sounding feministic I just feel that it takes both the husband and the wife to work together, with the wife as the one who raises and takes care of the children they spend more time with her usually so will learn from the way she behaves.

E) Beautiful! Of course look for someone who is on the same page as you... 🙂

basmelech

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 3:01 PM

Quote from rosepetal5 on May 28, 2013, 10:52 AM
Why can't the man and woman work together to set the tone for their home? It is a partnership after all. I see what you guys are saying about each having their own strengths, but I honestly think it works best when they work together.

I've seen marriages where one spouse tries to set the tone on their own. It doesn't always work so well.

Very well said! 🙂 Both the husband and wife should try to work together to set the proper tone in the home.

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 6:22 PM

Quote from atararox on March 6, 2013, 6:18 PM
no necessarily true cherry. sometimes one spouse has a stronger leadership personality and thats perfectly ok as a matter of fact its normal. when there are two strong personalities - thats when therapy is needed. or when neither one can make a descision - also a call for therapy. as long as the one whose more dominant is a mentch and not controlling in an abusive unhealthy way and takes the other persons needs and opinions into consideration, it perfectly ok to have one spouse who is more opinonated and a clearer thinker. a leadership personality and a control freak are two very different ends up the spectrum. a person who is a natural leader can achieve great things.

Very well said, Atara.
Here's an example: it could be spouse A is more pushy, in other words, get's things done and is a go-getter. Spouse B is very lucid, but just not so aggressive. (Spouse A isn't aggressive in a negative way.)
Let's say The couple wants to buy a used car. Spouse A wants a Hyundai, Spouse B wants a Toyota. Spouse A will give their reasons as to why he/she wants a hyundai, but will listen to why spouse B wants a toyota. They will end up with whatever car they both agree to buy - after listening to each other's reasons.
Spouse A will negotiate a great deal with the dealer, while Spouse B stands on. They walk away with a Toyota priced at $12,000 and bought for $9,500.
They work together for the benefit of the whole. (As a disclaimer, Spouse B can put their foot down when they truly disagree with Spouse A's opinion.)
That is a healthy relationship.
As for setting the tone, I don't think that either a man or a woman is more inclined. It depends on each's personality.
As people said above, women have their strengths, and men have their strengths, but I think it is the personality that makes the difference in who sets the tone.

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Post Re: Who Do YOU Think Sets the Tone in the Home?
on: May 28, 2013, 6:27 PM

(But they should complement each other and work together)

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