Forums

Suggest a New Forum Category

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.

Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Chinuch Thoughts
Bracha613

Dating Maven

Posts: 175
Send Message
Post Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 12:27 AM

I had a chinuch insight that I wanted to share.
I recently read a Mishpacha article that spoke about people going off the derech... So it basically said that B"H the trend of teens going off the derech seems to have slowed down. However a new problem seems to be creeping up, and that is that there are teens that dress the dress.. can have animated Hashkafa discussions however they would text on Shabbos or do other things which are clearly Assur.
So the question is, is what's causing that?
I think the problem is when parents try to influence their kids through preaching rather than through action. See what happens is that parents want so much that their kids grow up to be yarei shamayim... so they talk to their kids about how much Hashem loves them... how wonderful Mitzvos are....how terrible Aveiros are... Then the kids go ahead and see that their parents do not really live up to the standards they are preaching (for after all who could live to such high standards always realizing how bad Aveiros are..) so then kids start to think that that's how Ruchnius is it's an intellectual pursuit! You discuss ideas.. which are true intellectually but it's OK if in action we don't reach that level... and than slowly but surely it can reach a level that people can at the same time have a heated Hashkafa discussion and the next minute text on Shabbos 😐
What do you all think???

feigy123

Dating Coach

Posts: 553
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 12:44 AM

I think that is a contributing factor, and it reminds me of a good thought I heard somewhere.

There is this father who brings his kid to shul, and then the whole time he is shushing him, and telling him to stop playing, and telling him to daven.

Someone asks the father what he is doing.
"I'm teaching him to daven"
"No, you are teaching him that when he has kids, he should shush them and tell them to daven. If you want to teach him to daven, then YOU daven."

But I think there are larger factors.

thinkingBY-
girl

Dating Coach

Posts: 607
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 12:50 AM

Interesting perspective. I was just discussing something similar with someone actually. It seems more now than ever that teenagers so blatantly break Shabbos without even feeling guilty about it. Idk, texting is one thing, because it can be a result of a real addiction, but in general, why is it that that's how kids deal with their anger and the like? What is it that we're lacking that they see being m'chalel shabbos as even an option?

One thing I was thinking was kind of what you're saying. We teach skills and maybe even lessons, but are we helping kids connect to it? Why is it that you often hear that girls say they never really understood or appreciated Shabbos or whatever other mitzvah until after a year in seminary? Maybe we need to think about the way we learn things in seminary. It's mostly lishma and it's about the experience. When you experience a poor family's authentic joy to host you for Shabbos or witness the unshakable emunah of even the nonfrum Israeli taxi driver...that makes much more of an impression than a half hour debate about bechira.

iThink

Dating Pro

Posts: 311
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 1:03 AM

FTR, I don't believe any teenager (or adult) ever texted on shabbos because of an addiction. Plenty of people are "addicted" to their phones from Motzei Shabbos till erev shabbos, but touching that thing on Shabbos is simply not an option. Same goes for chain smokers. If a person cares about Shabbos, they will make their addictions work around it- thousands of shomer shabbos smokers and text addicts do.

thinkingBY-
girl

Dating Coach

Posts: 607
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 2:29 AM

I respectfully disagree. If someone is truly addicted they cannot control the urge; the urge controls them. Perhaps there is a difference between the people you are describing who are merely quote end quote "addicted." I'm talking about clinical addiction, which by definition is a compulsion so strong that a person continues to use/smoke/text/whatever despite all adverse consequences and the like. Their control is impaired; they cannot "make their addiction work around" anything.

patcha

Dating Coach

Posts: 445
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 9:21 AM

I'm sure it does influence it but I don't know how much. You have children of gedolim who go off the derech and children from completely dysfunctional homes who turn out wonderfully.

Bracha613

Dating Maven

Posts: 175
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 9:21 AM

Quote from thinkingBYgirl on May 24, 2013, 2:29 AM
I'm talking about clinical addiction, which by definition is a compulsion so strong that a person continues to use/smoke/text/whatever despite all adverse consequences and the like. Their control is impaired; they cannot "make their addiction work around" anything.

Is there such a thing as clinical addiction to texting?
Don't forget the concept of Bechira!
ThiningBYgirl do you really see Bais Yaakov type kids being Mechalel Shabbos?

atararox

Dating Pro

Posts: 227
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 9:32 AM

I just heard a shiur by rabbi wallerstein he said a regular bais yakov girl came to him and she was crying that she and her friends are texting on shabbos and they dont know what to do they cant stop. She was reg frum tzniusdik she was makpid on so many chumras and she was still texting on shabb. It's so scary and I could never understand it because I hardly ever text I mainly text back when people text me so it sounds absurd to me but I guess it's true

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

Dating Pro

Posts: 320
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 9:47 AM

Bracha613: "Do you really see Bais Yaakov type kids being mechalel shabbos?"
Anyone - regardless of how stereo-typically Bais Yaakovy they are, has the ability to be mechalel shabbos. You have to consider all the factors that would make someone mechalel shabbos. No matter how hard Bais Yaakov families try, there are always going to be outside influences and personal nisyonos that will make a difference in how these kids behave.

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

Dating Pro

Posts: 320
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 9:53 AM

atararox: your story proves how texting is addictive. I also think it depends who you're texting and what hashkafos those people have. If all your friends are texting, it's going to be very difficult to abstain. never underestimate the power of influence.
ALSO, I think that if a girl is texting boys (who text on shabbos) it will be astronomically harder to keep your phone off on shabbos. There is the extra nisayon of "what is he going to text me? Does he feel/think/like...?" And they might feel like they are missing out or that the boy will move on to someone else if they are unavailable.

iThink

Dating Pro

Posts: 311
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 11:34 AM

Quote from thinkingBYgirl on May 24, 2013, 2:29 AM
I respectfully disagree. If someone is truly addicted they cannot control the urge; the urge controls them. Perhaps there is a difference between the people you are describing who are merely quote end quote "addicted." I'm talking about clinical addiction, which by definition is a compulsion so strong that a person continues to use/smoke/text/whatever despite all adverse consequences and the like. Their control is impaired; they cannot "make their addiction work around" anything.

Texting is absolutely not recognized as a clinical addiction. People throw the term around and that is somehow supposed to make it a disorder beyond their control when the reality is that anyone who cares about shabbos simply doesn't text. Nicotine is an addictive substance and nobody would dare use that as an excuse for being mechalel shabbos.

Shabbos texters are victims of spiritual dispassion, not of addiction.

iThink

Dating Pro

Posts: 311
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 11:43 AM

Quote from atararox on May 24, 2013, 9:32 AM
I just heard a shiur by rabbi wallerstein he said a regular bais yakov girl came to him and she was crying that she and her friends are texting on shabbos and they dont know what to do they cant stop. She was reg frum tzniusdik she was makpid on so many chumras and she was still texting on shabb. It's so scary and I could never understand it because I hardly ever text I mainly text back when people text me so it sounds absurd to me but I guess it's true

I find pretty odd. Wonder if she'd still have that problem if all her regular frum tsniusdig friends weren't text addicts too. Who would she be texting? Or did she and her friends magically discover one shabbos that they all have this same problem? Cuz if chas vesholom I wake up tomorrow morning with a crazy urge to group text, I'm pretty sure it would be a very lonely chat for me. These girls have a shabbos issue to deal with. Not a texting issue.

Shaindy

Dating Maven

Posts: 67
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 11:53 AM

Quote from iThink on May 24, 2013, 11:34 AM

Shabbos texters are victims of spiritual dispassion, not of addiction.

I would also think so but read this http://www.sott.net/article/214297-Teens-Text-Addiction
Teenagers are becoming addicted to texting, according to a new study. In fact experts are saying being hooked on texting can be like being addicted to drugs.

Walking, sitting, it doesn't matter where it happens, teenagers seem to need to text. Statistics show 80 percent of all 15 to 18-year-olds own a cell phone. And the rate of texting has sky rocketed 600 percent in three years. The average teen sends 3,000 texts a month.

"I think that it's just like a drug, once you get hooked on to it, you can't let go. It's like whenever I open my eyes the first thing I look at is my phone," said Hermine Vardanian, a texter.

"It clearly fits the criteria of an addiction," said Dr. Gary Small, a Psychiatrist.

Neuroimaging studies show the same brain areas are stimulated with both texting and using heroin.

iThink

Dating Pro

Posts: 311
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 12:09 PM

Nice statement, Dr. Small. Did you know that there are doctors who claim that they can cure cancer with fruit juice?

Yup that's the way it works today. Spend hours video gaming or shopping or texting and instead of doing something constructive and you are the victim. How pathetic.

iThink

Dating Pro

Posts: 311
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 12:13 PM

Just curious how does everyone else explain the apparent resistance that frum smokers have to their Nicotine dependence on shabbos?

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

Dating Pro

Posts: 320
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 1:43 PM

Maybe the girls who are texting on shabbos are doing it because they convince themselves that it's not wrong? We know of course that it is, but because its a new invention, some people (who are merely using this as an excuse, but people are jumping on it) say that it's not halachically wrong. They say that electricity wasnt one of the 39 melachos...or whatever (i don't remember the exact excuse)They know deep down that it is wrong, but they find some sort of "heter" to why it's ok, and they won't question it. (because they don't want to.) Even though its something that people just made up.
Smokers wont smoke on shabbos because they care about shabbos and everyone knows that there is absolutely no heter since the days of old.
I agree with what ithink said above:

Shabbos texters are victims of spiritual dispassion, not of addiction.

basmelech

Dating Coach

Posts: 408
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 3:14 PM

Quote from iThink on May 24, 2013, 12:09 PM
Nice statement, Dr. Small. Did you know that there are doctors who claim that they can cure cancer with fruit juice?

Yup that's the way it works today. Spend hours video gaming or shopping or texting and instead of doing something constructive and you are the victim. How pathetic.

Very well said iThink! πŸ™‚

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

Dating Pro

Posts: 320
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 24, 2013, 4:50 PM

it's called being a liberal πŸ˜‰ You hear a lot about these poor "victims" in college.

basmelech

Dating Coach

Posts: 408
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 26, 2013, 12:40 AM

Thanks for giving it a term ttdwr πŸ™‚

TryToDoWha-
tsRight

Dating Pro

Posts: 320
Send Message
Post Re: Chinuch Thoughts
on: May 26, 2013, 12:45 AM

πŸ™‚ my pleasure

Pages: [1]
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.33.3; Page loaded in: 0.132 seconds.