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Author Topic: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
sem613

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Post question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 18, 2014, 1:59 PM

So I started saying the tefillah for a shidduch thats in the Anneni, but I'm a little bit troubled. It basically asks for a PERFECT GUY, with nothing wrong, perfect yichus, etc etc. Is it really fair that I ask for only a perfect guy, no BT, etc? Why is the tefillah not just asking for the perfect guy FOR ME, and to find him soon. alternatively, does someone know a tefillah that is just that?

in the gap

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 20, 2014, 6:49 AM

I think that there are two answers to this. First of all one is only given that which he or she asks for as we learn from the grass only rowing once Adam asked for it to grow. Therefore, we need to ask for our husband to have all the following in order to be zoche to get it. Furthermore, it isn't that we are saying we must have it but that we want this. It is not a contradiction to asking for the the perfect boy for me as a part of working on our emunah and bitachon is to be specific regarding all that we want/Hashem gives us, and here we are covering all the maalos that we want in our future husband.

sem613

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 20, 2014, 1:46 PM

I guess part of whats bugging me is that I know I'm not perfect in all these ways (minor health things), so why should I expect someone who is?

Princess-
Lea

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 20, 2014, 3:53 PM

I'm sorry, what tefilah is this? Where is the source?

I find it rather questionable.

Of course we are supposed to ask Hashem only that which is good for us. I don't know what the source of this tefilah is, but I would say you are better off interjecting a tefilah in your own words by "shomeah tefilah."

I once heard from Rabbi Yaakov Haber that one should have in mind, when saying Modim, that everything comes from Hashem (that's for all situations).

sem613

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 20, 2014, 6:21 PM

this is one version, there are others too: (warning, there is sheimos on this)
'באדיבות ר' שמעון כהן שליט''א - לקוח מן החוברת ''קול חתן וקול כלה'' יְהִי רָצוֹן מִלְּפָנֶיךָ ה' אֱלֹהַי וֵאלֹהֵי אֲבוֹתַי, שֶׁתַּמְצִיא לִי בְּרַחֲמֶיךָ הָרַבִּים וּבַחֲסָדֶיךָ הַגְּדוֹלִים אֶת זִוּוּגִי הָרָאוּי לִי בִּזְמַנוֹ, זִוּוּג הָגוּן הָרָאוּי לְהוֹלִיד, תַּלְמִיד חָכָם, גָּדוֹל בְּתוֹרָה וּבְיִרְאָה, מִזֶּרַע צַדִּיקִים וְאַנְשֵׁי אֱמֶת וְיִרְאַת חֵטְא, כְּמוֹ שֶׁהִמְצֵאתָ זִוּוּגוֹ לְאָדָם הָרִאשׁוֹן, לְאַבְרָהָם וְיִצְחָק וְיַעֲקֹב וּמֹשֶׁה, כָּל אֶחָד זִוּוּגוֹ בְּעִתּוֹ וּבִזְמַנּוֹ. וְאוֹתוֹ אִישׁ שֶׁתַּמְצִיא לִי לְזִוּוּגִי יְהֵא אִישׁ טוֹב, אִישׁ נָאֶה בְּמַעֲשָיו בַּעַל מַעֲשִׂים טוֹבִים, בַּעַל חֵן, אִישׁ מַשְׂכִּיל וִירֵא אֱלהִים, רוֹדֵף צְדָקָה וְגוֹמֵל חֶסֶד. וְלֹא יְהֵא בּוֹ שֵׁמֶץ פְּסוּל וּמוּם וּפְגָם, וְלֹא יְהֵא כַּעֲסָן וְרַגְזָן, רַק בַּעַל עֲנָוָה וּנְמִיכוּת רוּחַ, בָּרִיא וּבַעַל כֹּחַ. וְאַל יְעַכֵּב אַכְזְרִיּוּת הַבְּרִיּוֹת וְשׂוֹנְאִים וּמַחְשְׁבוֹתֵיהֶם וְתַחְבּוּלוֹתֵיהֶם לְעַכֵּב אֶת בֶּן זוּגִי שַהוּכַן לִי.יִהְיוּ לְרָצוֹן אִמְרֵי פִי וְהֶגְיוֹן לִבִּי לְפָנֶיךָ, ה' צוּרִי וְגֹאֲלִי

pray today

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 20, 2014, 7:43 PM

Wow! That's some boy! I wouldn't mind going out with him 😛

DeepThinke-
r

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 21, 2014, 9:52 AM

Princess lea the source is from the Shlah Hakadosh so if you say tefiiilas Hashlah then this is from the same source. Its not questionable and i agree with in the gap - you can ask for everything and just because your not perfect doesnt mean you cant get someone without that flaw( health wise too sem 613) tefilla can accomplish sooo much and if you dont ask why should He give it to you? You shouldnt EXPECT it but you can ask...think of it like this letsay you go and ask your father for a car....you ask him without expecting it but if he gives it to you you are estatic! Hashem is our father and we can ask him anything!!!!

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Lea

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 21, 2014, 10:02 AM

But people want different things. I don't want a man without flaw. Perfection is very hard to live with, believe me. I would want someone who is all too human (like me) and still trying every day to improve (which is like me, I hope).

I'm not interested in the modern interpretation of yechus; I prefer a refined as opposed to renowned family. He doesn't have to find favor in everyone's eyes ("baal chein"). I'm not sure to what parameters they mean he should be without bodily flaw—do they mean hammertoe-free? Or that he should be strong—I've been doing the heavy lifting (literally) in my house for years, so I'm good.

Yes, we can ask Hashem for anything. But I think I would rather say, "Hashem, You know what is best for me. I shall leave it in Your hands. Everything comes from You."

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r

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 21, 2014, 11:12 AM

Yes but Hashem wants us to daven! The reason why the Imahos were akaros was only because Hakohosh Baruch Hu Mesaveh Lesfilassam shel tzadikim! Alot of our suffering ( including shidduchim) is only because Hashem wants us to come close to him and daven and beg him for what we need and want...If you feel that you dont agree with the Shela in what you want in a husband then dont say it! but i dont think Hashem wants to hear from you..." You know whats best and im leaving it in Your hands." Obviously this is what your should be thinking that its all in His Hands but he wants us to ask and beg...its a nachas to Hashem when we daven and cry to him.....and when it says bli mum upega i dont think its referring to a hammertoe....cmon it means real health issues....why wouldnt you want to daven for that especially in todays day in age where so many things are hidden and so many people have health issues that people find out about after marraige? and your going to tell me you dont want to him to be a bal chein? like you dont want people to like him and think good of him? Are you saying when you do info on a boy if you here something bad it doesnt phase you? like if people are not giving good reports - like if ppl dont get along with him you just wouldnt care???? Please enlighten me!

sem613

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 22, 2014, 8:45 PM

i dont think Hashem wants to hear from you..." You know whats best and im leaving it in Your hands."

why not, isnt that the highest level, to have such bitachon?
princess-lea- I totally agree, I really think I would feel so insecure and insignificant if I married someone as perfect as described.( I would also be sorta scared that he is hiding something, cuz how can he be so perfect?)

dschecht13

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 23, 2014, 7:28 AM

Just my opinion, but perfection is in the eye of the beholder, we all want our husbands to be perfect for us. As for the Yichus line- think of it this way, in that many great rabbonim say that a true Ba'al Teshuva has better Yichus then the rest of us, because someone davened for them, and they have done teshuva which brings them closer to Hashm in many different ways. Also when we ask for perfection we are all aware that only Hashm is perfect which is why it does not concern me to daven for perfection. I have to agree with Deep-Thinker on the Baal Chein, while not everyone will like everybody else, if you are checking references and no one has anything good to say about the guy you wouldn't go out with him. May we all find the right one soon and in the right time.

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r

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 24, 2014, 9:42 AM

Sem 613 if u read my post again carefully i said that yes that is what you should be thinking - that everything is in Hashems hands and He knows what is best for you! However that is not a contradiction to asking Hashem for the specifics of what you want and want you are dreaming of....Hashem loves it when we ask him. Sometimes a girl can be in shidduchim for a whole just because He loves her and wants her to come close to Him..He wants her to daven - thats how we become close to Him. Hashem gave a klalla to the nachash that hell have food all his life- the dust because He didnt want a kesher with him. We need Hashem for every step of the way- and we need to ask for everything! Even the tiny and small things.( learn shearim betefilla if you want to learn about the power of tefilla- itll blow your mind!) The avos had full bitachon beleive me! More than any of us Im sure! Yet they davened for years! Also I wouldnt be so bold as to say that a tefilla that is around for years is not something that should be said - something written by the shelah Hakadosh! Do you feel like you know better than him? I hear what you are saying that you dont what someone so perfect but i agree with dshecht - NOONE is perfect but you want someone perfect for you! And when you daven im sure you know this- one word in lashon kodesh can mean what kavana u put to it....so when you say bal mum you can have in mind he shouldnt have a hammertoe or u can have in mind he should be healthy in mind .....its all up to you and what you have in mind!

Princess-
Lea

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 24, 2014, 11:14 AM

The Anshei Knesses HaGedolah codified the tefilos we say today. There are many optional tefilos to add today (including those of our own composition) and yes, while this Yehi Ratzon was written by the Shlah HaKadosh, it is not required davening; it is optional.

If someone feels uncomfortable with a non-mandatory tefillah in that one believes it does not express their true thoughts before Hashem, I would say they certainly do not have to say it. This is the first I had heard of this Yehi Ratzon, and I don't believe that any rabbi would decree that means I must say it.

I prefer my "Modim" method. Sem613 may come across another tefillah that she feels more appropriate to her wants and needs. What we say every day (keves echad ba'boker) is more important first, before anything that was composed later. I strive to be able to daven with the kavanah in that first, before I add anything more.

DeepThinke-
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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 24, 2014, 11:19 AM

No problem - obviously no tefilla is mandatory! Im just saying you shouldnt bash it on a public forum so easily. You can say a tefilla in your own words too! Hashem listens to everything!v 🙂 Whats your modim method just out of curiosity?

Princess-
Lea

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Post Re: question on the tefillos- do we expect perfection
on: February 25, 2014, 11:06 AM

It was not my intention to "bash." I was unaware of this Yehi Tatzon's existence and of its content. When I was informed as such, I was attempting to elucidate that optional comes after the mandatory and codified.

I heard the concept from Rabbi Yaakov Haber. It wasn't in this article, but I couldn't find the original one:

http://www.torahlab.org/calendar/article/shmini_2011/

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