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Author Topic: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
keepsmilin-
g123

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Post Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: March 18, 2013, 8:16 PM

People have been suggesting boys to me who seem great and really on target. Personality-wise and goal-wise it really matches up, but when it comes to his "career-plan" that's when it gets a little fuzzy. I prefer someone who will learn for a bit and then go into klei kodesh, but the boys being redt to me are learning for a bit and then hoping to go work, but not in klei kodesh. Of course these boys are still planning on living a life of Torah, but they prefer accounting, business, etc.
Is it compromising what I want in a shidduch to go for it or should I be sticking to what I want? I know I should keep my options open and not be so "nit-picky" since nothing is 100% perfect.
At what point do I say "no" and when do I say "maybe - it's not my ideal but it may be a possibility"?

I am definitely confused so your advice is greatly appreciated!

life123

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Post Re: Compromising?
on: March 18, 2013, 8:32 PM

You really never know what will happen, and whoever is redding may not know what they are talking about. I want a learning boy who will earn for as long as possible, but if someone says a specific amount of years I wouldn't say no. If you say yes, you can discuss it on the date. If you see that they really want to do business, and are only learning because that's what their friends are doing, then you may choose to say no. But more likely they will say, "Well, I was thinking maybe I;d go into business because my father thinks it's a good idea" or something like that. And then once you are married... IY"H... you will be a team and decided - it's hardly set in stone, and you'll have an influence.

iThink

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: March 18, 2013, 11:57 PM

keepsmiling123-

I think you need to do some thinking about why exactly your ideal husband ends up in klei kodesh, and take it from there. Sometimes we get stuck with an image of our future life or lifestyle and it's hard to change that image simply because we always assumed that's the way it would be. But it's important to make sure that this is based on logical reason and not just a "preference" that you can't explain.

thinkingBY-
girl

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: March 19, 2013, 12:03 AM

Quote from iThink on March 18, 2013, 11:57 PM
keepsmiling123-

I think you need to do some thinking about why exactly your ideal husband ends up in klei kodesh, and take it from there. Sometimes we get stuck with an image of our future life or lifestyle and it's hard to change that image simply because we always assumed that's the way it would be. But it's important to make sure that this is based on logical reason and not just a "preference" that you can't explain.

"Like"

I love how you think beyond the immediate issue to the full picture.

bitachon

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: March 19, 2013, 11:13 PM

Quote from keepsmiling123 on March 18, 2013, 8:16 PM
People have been suggesting boys to me who seem great and really on target. Personality-wise and goal-wise it really matches up, but when it comes to his "career-plan" that's when it gets a little fuzzy. I prefer someone who will learn for a bit and then go into klei kodesh, but the boys being redt to me are learning for a bit and then hoping to go work, but not in klei kodesh. Of course these boys are still planning on living a life of Torah, but they prefer accounting, business, etc.
Is it compromising what I want in a shidduch to go for it or should I be sticking to what I want? I know I should keep my options open and not be so "nit-picky" since nothing is 100% perfect.
At what point do I say "no" and when do I say "maybe - it's not my ideal but it may be a possibility"?

I am definitely confused so your advice is greatly appreciated!

hey send him my way!
on the more practical point
first you never know where life takes you and at times you may "plan your future" yet in the end Hashem has a totally diff plan, However, i do understand the dilemma and you should prob ask a mentor/teacher etc that knows you well and knows where youre coming from
an imp thing to rem is your marrying a person not an occupation but i do understand you may be looking for a specific mindset type of boy
hatzlacha

chaykie

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: March 21, 2013, 2:42 PM

hey you can send the boys my way too 🙂 i've been looking all over for those kinds! and i have the opposite problem, i really want my (future) husband to be mostly working, and of course set aside time for Torah, be a good frum G-d fearing Yid... want to live a Torah lifestyle. but i know myself, and i won't just be ok with my husband sitting in learning while i go to work full day to make ends meet... but when i speak about this with my grandmother, she says" it doesn't matter what he says he wants to do, even if he wants to learn for 10 yrs in the beginning, you can't say no because of that, cuz you don't know what will happen in the future. he may decide to stop before that" to which my response is "then why don't i just go out with anybody and marry anybody? girls have to be somewhat "picky" or else we'd all need to marry the same guy." i told her that it's a lifestyle thing. and i have the self awareness that it takes to know what works for me and what doesn't. as a girl, i like nice things, i like looking nice. i can't live a simple lifestyle with the attitude that the less you have the better. that's not me. maybe one day i'll work up to that, but it's not me now. i know how i feel when i or my parents are struggling to pay for something. i don't want to purposely bring that upon myself. granted we don't know what Hashem has in store, but we can do our hishtadlus to try to avoid hard situations. i can't just have two outfits for shabbos and four for every day.... get the picture? am i wrong to say no to someone who knows now that he wants to learn for 10 yrs? i think not, but i'd love to hear the thoughts of the olam here, too. keepsmiling, i wish i'd have an answer for you, but i'm looking for answers myself, same thing, opposite way around 🙂

feigy123

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: March 22, 2013, 1:39 PM

Quote from chaysim on March 18, 2013, 8:32 PM
And then once you are married... IY"H... you will be a team and decided - it's hardly set in stone, and you'll have an influence.

If you are thinking that way, you should definitely disclose that during dating before getting engaged. It would certainly be a mistake to mislead him into thinking that you are currently happy with his intended career if that is something you intend to "influence."

The same would be true if you intend to "influence" him to learn more than he currently is, or to have a better relationship with his mother, or to take more frequent showers; or from his side, if he intended to "influence" you to lose weight or to dress more or less tzniusdik, or to work more or less than you are saying you want to.

Having a secret agenda for your prospective spouse's life is a sure recipe for disaster, and I would think ample grounds for breaking an engagement and likely even divorce.

keepsmilin-
g123

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 18, 2013, 8:41 PM

Hey guys!
Sorry to bring this up again, but....I'm not sure if I'm asking more than I'm venting but here it goes....
I keep telling my parents that I want someone who will learn for the first few years and then go into klei kodesh, but then they start with "what's klei kodesh? there's a difference between a rebbi and a mashgiach, but they're both klei kodesh!" UGH! So then I went towards "I prefer rebbi, but if he matches up for everything except the fact that he is going into accounting, then as long as he is in a torah environment and still learns as much as possible, then fine". But that brings about "there's a difference between a rebbi and an accountant"!
UGH! I feel like I'm going in circles! Plus I'm not very good with words, so trying to figure out how to say things is a big challenge!
Any advice?

Guest

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 21, 2013, 9:17 AM

Aviva recently had a baby and will be out of commission for another month or so. Please feel free to respond to each other's questions until she returns. Or, you can send your questions to one of our featured writers. Thanks!

patcha

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 21, 2013, 10:07 AM

keepsmiling: It sounds to me like you are looking for a position in life, rather than for a personality.

Mazal tov, Aviva!

keepsmilin-
g123

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 21, 2013, 10:48 AM

Patcha - what do you mean "a position in life"? Btw, I do have a hard time being decisive and I always second guess myself - which certainly isn't a help here 🙂 - I know it's something I have to work on.

Mazal tov Aviva!

patcha

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 21, 2013, 11:07 AM

keepsmiling: a person who is doing certain things. It sounds like you want to be able to say "he's doing x y z" but you are not explaining who you want him to be.

keepsmilin-
g123

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 21, 2013, 7:25 PM

Thanks for your perspective. I emailed my seminary principal when would be a good time for me to call her, so I can talk it over with "da'as Torah" that knows me.
Thanks!

patcha

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: April 21, 2013, 9:40 PM

Hatzlacha!

Aviva B
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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: May 30, 2013, 3:40 PM

Hi Keepsmiling,

Thanks for the good wishes! I hope in the meantime you got some clarity, but just in case... iThink point about getting to the reason behind the stipulation is very important.
To give an example, from Chayie - Chayie says that she wants someone who has significant parnasa plans because

", i like nice things, i like looking nice. i can't live a simple lifestyle with the attitude that the less you have the better. that's not me."

That's fantastic that Chayie knows herself that well. Why? Because someone else might also want someone with significant parnasa plans, but for a different reason. For her, she needs her husband to be responsible and caring - and she sees putting effort into parnasa as representative of that.
What's the difference? Let's say a boy is suggested who wants to learn for the next twenty years, and his family owns diamond mines and they see him as someone with great potential and are happily willing to support a comfortable lifestyle. Given Chayie's reason, there's no problem with this shidduch. For the other girl, it might still be a problem, because she wouldn't feel like her husband was putting effort into taking care of them.
There could be another boy who holds down 2 jobs and is busy 10 hours a day with parnasa hishtadlus, but only makes enough for a very modest lifestyle (and no sign of that changing, b'derech hateva). He's a potential match for girl 2, but would not be appropriate for Chayie.

Rule #1 in dating - to find the other half, you have to know this half pretty well first.

B'hatzlacha!
Aviva

basmelech

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: May 30, 2013, 4:53 PM

I like that rule! So important! 🙂

Aviva B
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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: June 3, 2013, 3:23 AM

Thanks, Basmelech!

basmelech

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Post Re: Question For Aviva - Compromising?
on: June 3, 2013, 2:39 PM

Your welcome! 😉

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